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  1. Today
  2. dhdunbar

    Processing form Line 13 & 29

    I've got to get to work, but ... Part IV is where TTB collects the information it uses to prepare its statistical reports. Period. I think it has no other use; at least I don't see how it fits into an audit, because I don't see the way to establish an audit trail. Part 1 of the form reports bulk ingredients, as does part IV, column b. So the total dumped in cell 6(b) should equal the total dumped in cell 67(b). But what does that prove? Nothing. I don't know what purpose the comparison makes and the part IV data seems to have no sue other than to inform industry, or any others who may want to know, how many proof gallons of blended light whiskey, for example, were dumped in the month of June. It is purely statistical, but the total of all commodities can can compared to the total dumped. But there is no way to compare the part 2 and part 4 bottled entries. One is in wine gallon s and one in proof gallons. So, unless you bottle everything at the same proof, there is no way to reconcile the two figures short of converting proof gallons to wine gallons from the bottling records. "For what reason?" is a rhetorical question. What you want to ensure is that the dump records for the processing account total to the quantities you show as dumped into the account on the operating report and that the records create a trail back to the materials from which produced, so you have evidence in support of label claim.
  3. Yesterday
  4. indyspirits

    Advice on where to hire Sales Reps

    indeed.com ??
  5. Julius

    Lessons in Barrel Aging

    Thanks so much Dave. I hope to buy you a drink one day.
  6. dhdunbar

    Lessons in Barrel Aging

    Did I mention I don't deal in either COLA or formula submissions? There are reasons for that. Label questions are complicated. Since it appears to the internal controls to ensure that all employees act consistently, the employees sometimes (often/usually) bring their own rules to the game. When people start applying personal interpretations, things are not only complicated, they are complex. You can reason through complicated, but things that are complex are unpredictable. That said - here is a basic rule - don't worry about things like whiskey specialties not being included in some list that lacks the authority of regulation. I repeat, don't worry about that, unless, of course, you must. Let me explain how I reach that conclusion: TTB classifies as TTB will. I lump that into the category of things that "are because TTB says they are" and dismiss the idea of arguing unless necessary.. The numbering system is an unnecessary hodgepodge. So too all those BAM tables. (Yea, a pun does lurk in the homonym suggested). The basic rule YOU follow is you must designate the class and type on the label (5.32). The rules for class and type statements are in 5.35. It provides that if a product does not comport to a standard of identity (5.22), then it is a specialty item and must be labeled as required by 5.35. Applying the rule, what TTB deems a "whisky specialty" is not, in TTB's opinion, a whiskey and does not comport to other standards in 5.22. Now, 5.22 includes a number of class and type standards for products that can include bourbon, or straight bourbon. These include bourbon (5.22(b)(1); a couple of blend variants (5.22(b)(4) and 5.22(b)(5)i)); bourbon liqueurs (5.22(h)(2)); and flavored bourbon (5.22(i)). Add to that the specialties (5.35), which may in some cases be designated in accordance with trade and consumer understanding, and it is a daunting potpourri. I'm not sure how many TTB specialists understand how to split those hairs. And if they can't, how can you or I. But split them, they do, into all those number categories and lists like you find in the BAM and which you may, for most purposes, ignore. Okay, you may need them to determine whether you need a pre-COLA evaluation, but other than that, let TTB deal with it. So, that is how I arrive at the conclusion that is usually best to let TTB sort it out and accept what they say. If what they say somehow takes an iron pipe to the knees of your plans, you can argue with them,. However, given a label approval, in hand, like the one for Parkers discussed above, do you really care how TTB categorizes it as long as they approve it? What difference does it make if they enter 641, 732, or the square root of the average distance to the moon.The only practical difference, it seems, is how you report it on the back of the processing report, which is info TTB collects solely for the purpose of publishing the statistical reports that congress requires. What can be interesting is disagreement between the label people and the formula people. With that I return to, "Did I mention that I don't submit formula or COLA applications? And yes, I know you must. But the best I can do is advise you how to try to maintain sanity while doing that.
  7. Distilling Down South

    Distillery For Sale in SC

    Small distillery a few years old. Bourbon, rye and a few other whiskeys aging in 5 and 10 gallon barrels. Good traffic through tasting room, in-state and some out-of-state distribution. Great jump start for someone looking to start their own distillery. $225,000 Please PM distillingdownsouth@gmail.com
  8. Dave Mueller

    Award Winning Head Distiller

    Hello Sunny Distiller, I’d love to chat if you had some time. If interested, please send me your contact info. mueller9567@gmail.com Thanks,
  9. Dave Mueller

    Distiller / Production Manager

    Hello NP Distilling, If you still haven’t found that dream distilling job, please email me back at mueller9567@gmail.com. Thanks, Dave
  10. Dan McCall

    Looking for Used Bottle Filler

    I don't know if my posts are getting through so i will try again. I have an 8 head APOF filler for sale. Only been used a few times. I will post pictures. 951/712-7751 Dan
  11. JGizinski_Atlas_StillCo.

    240 Gallon Distillation System from Specific Mechanical

    I am interested in the HLT, Looking for pricing and details. Please email me at Justin@atlasdistillingco.com we are looking to purchase immediately. Thanks! Sorry about the not being able to open. The government can really screw ones ambitions.
  12. We've finally reached the stage where I can't continue to do everything myself. The biggest help to me at this point would be to bring on an experienced, knowledgeable, personable, connected, outside sales representative to continue working with our current accounts and generate new ones. Where is the best place to find folks like that? Does anyone have experience finding and hiring your first sales rep? How did it go?
  13. JailBreak

    GNS Cost and Availability

    Thank you very much, that did help make things a little clearer. I understand it this way now: All vodka is Neutral Spirits, but not all Neutral Spirits is vodka. So even though some of these suppliers make their juice to vodka standards, they for some reason label it as NGS and normally that would require a formula because you are changing class/type. But that begged the question, why does the TTB not require a formula if you make it from scratch (where I know a lot of people are producing a NGS intermediate, just not classifying it at production I guess?) but require a formula if you cut that first part out? So I did some more investigative digging and eventually remembered a previous reply by @Jedd Haas mentioning the "general-use formulas" https://ttb.gov/rulings/2016-3.pdf. It took a bit to wrap my head around it but what I gathered is, as long as you're making a spirit that fits the S.O.I. of vodka, you don't need a formula. "TTB approves a general-use formula under §§ 5.26 and 19.348 for vodka produced in accordance with the standards of identity set forth in § 5.22(a)(1) and containing no harmless coloring, flavoring or blending materials other than sugar in an amount not to exceed 2 grams per liter, citric acid in an amount not to exceed 1 gram per liter, or both." In fact, there is not an option to submit a formula for vodka.
  14. Still_Holler

    Processing form Line 13 & 29

    I am in the same boat, trying to navigate these forms and realized i'm doing some of them wrong. Where does part IV of this form come into play? Is it refering to a summary of the types of product you recorded in part I and II? Many thanks for any info.
  15. MSW, What are you upgrading to? I have this machine below for sale.

    951/ 712-7751  Dan


  16. Julius

    Lessons in Barrel Aging

    What other class/types are missing from the chapter 4 table? “Whiskey Specialty” is no where to be seen?
  17. Blue Sky, are you still looking for a filler? I have an almost brand new 8 Head APOF filler with auto capper.



    Filler 2 (1).JPG

    Filler 2 (2).JPG

    1. Blue Sky Distillery

      Blue Sky Distillery

      Hey Dan - a little more than I was looking for. ...Thanks anyways!

    2. Dan McCall

      Dan McCall

      No problem! 🙂 

  18. dhdunbar

    Lessons in Barrel Aging

    The TTB COLA's on line system is not user friendly, but Tom Lenerz nailed it. TTB classifies the product as CT 641, "Whisky Specialty." TTB assigns the code; the applicant does not. Here is the report from the database: and here is a copy of the label as submitted: I mentioned creative. I'll go with the brand name Parkers Heritage Collection, but then TTB , presumably searching the label for anything it can use, assigns "Barrel Finished" as the fanciful name. And the required truthful and accurate statement of composition (5.35), must be what is left, "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey Finished in Orange Curacao Barrels." TTB allows the statement of composition to be broken, so that it gives the appearance that the spirit is bourbon, which TTB , by its own rules, insists it is not. I've got no argument with that because the consumer is fully informed about the nature of the product in the bottle. If verdicts were mine, I'd say the label is fine. As it is, it is an inventive way around an arbitrary rule that bourbon can't be finished in the same way as rye. It is a way of having your cake and eating it too. That is how it fits.
  19. 1,000 gallon mash tun and 2x 1,000 gallon fermenters. Delivered new in March 2017. Only reason for selling is that we have outgrown them. Not looking to separate at this time. $65,000 FOB Columbia, Illinois (62236). 1,000 Gallon Mash Tun Steam heated Dual cooling jackets Insulated Dual prop agitator w/ motor and gear reducer 4" drain 2x 4" accessory ports on top CIP system w/ 2 rotating spray balls Sparging system Top and side manways Support ring for false bottom in place, but no false bottom. Dished bottom for total drain Thermometer Thermowell 4 Adjustable Feet Engine-Turned (Swirl) Finish Liquid level indicator tube 2x 1,000 Gallon Fermenters Dual Cooling Jackets Insulated Agitator w/ motor and gear reducer 4" Drain 4" accessory port Top manway Thermometer Thermowell 4 Adjustable Feet Engine-Turned (Swirl) Finish Dished bottom for total drain All equipment currently functional and still in use. You are more than welcome to come see it in action prior to its decommissioning within the next couple of months. For more information please email adam.stumpf at stumpysspirits dot com or call 618-281-7733.
  20. Tom Lenerz

    Lessons in Barrel Aging

    Using the public registry, you can see it is not (in the eyes of the TTB) a straight bourbon whiskey, but indeed a whiskey specialty as described above. It also required a formula. See the links attached Parkers: https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicDisplaySearchBasic&ttbid=18159001000469 Angels Envy: https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicDisplaySearchBasic&ttbid=13093001000246
  21. Julius

    Lessons in Barrel Aging

    So how does this fit into that logic? https://www.thespiritsbusiness.com/2018/07/heaven-hill-uses-orange-curacao-barrels-to-finish-bourbon/ Straight Bourbon Whiskey finished in orange curaçao barrels.
  22. Julius

    Heat Shrink capsules for Tennessee 750ml?

    Would love to know what you find.
  23. Huffy2k

    What am I getting into?

    You're going to hear lots of stories about endless days, government bureaucracy, unexpected costs, trouble getting distribution/sales. Don't let the horror stories scare you away but do take note of all the troubles others have faced. Would I have actually pulled the trigger on this business if I knew all the obstacles I'd have to clear to get it up and running? I don't know actually... That said, I'm glad I was a bit naive and moved forward. Take note of the troubles of others and include contingencies in your plan in the event you run into similar walls.
  24. Brett at Vitroval

    750ml Moonshine (domestic bottle)

    Hello To All, I have 2 pallets 160 case total of 750ml Moonshine bottles available in Benicia, CA 94510 These were produced in the US. Brett 707-363-6289 Vitroval USA
  25. Bartletts Distillery

    Heat Shrink capsules for Tennessee 750ml?

    I'm looking for a source of heat shrink capsules to use on our bartop 750ml Tennessee bottles. The suppliers I've been able to get in touch with have a 50,000 minimum order....I need like 5k at most. Also, the neck of the Tennessee is curved and the straight wine bottle capsules don't exactly fit as the should, nevermind they have an image of grapes pressed into the foil button on top. At any rate, I'm looking for a supplier of these capsules. Please help! cheers, Van Bartletts Distillery, LLC
  26. Bartletts Distillery

    Tennessee 750ml

    We get ours from All American Container.
  27. Sator Square Distillery

    Craft gin - 5 questions, please don't beat me up

    Not at bottle strength, no. But 50ml of my gin to about 200ml of tonic on a G&T will cause a slight louche. I do put that more to citrus oils than my juniper though, of which I use grapefruit and tangelo.
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