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  2. MichaelAtTCW

    grain/liquid separation

    You're not the only one. I know a number of our customers using hydraulic grape presses for extraction on grains, honey, and herbs for botanical extracts. Works great.
  3. Glenlyon

    grain/liquid separation

    Our chickens do a great job of eating everything we throw at them
  4. Southernhighlander

    grain/liquid separation

    If they are not willing to pick up every day that you distill that is a problem. Most of the farmers in my area are old school and their word is their bond, however if they don't pick up there is enough demand that someone else will. Of course everyone's situation is a little different. i even thought about raising a few hogs but I hated it when I was a kid and I probably would not like it any better now. Farmers who distilled legally and illegally in the 18th and 19th centuries nearly all used their spent mash to feed their own livestock.
  5. Southernhighlander

    grain/liquid separation

    Concerning direct fire electric stills were the heating element is in the wash. We sell very few of those for distilleries, however if the customer is doing all liquid washes and no mash cook is needed and they have a tight budget and they never intend to use anything other than all liquid washes then I will offer them a direct fire electric still. It is all about what the perticuler customers needs are and what their budget is.
  6. MG Thermal Consulting

    New startup question about setting up

    I have supplied chillers for these Low temp type processes for over 30 years (plus the fragrance industry) where alcohol is used and if the chiller or any electrical device is near a possible alcohol fume, and can produce a spark (even from a stone hitting a fan motor) it must use NEMA-7. Most common way do do this now is to nitrogen purge a NEMA-4 enclosure or encapsulate the device (fill it) with silicon so no oxygen can enter. I am rather surprised so far that a craft distillery has not blown up to change standards (liability and insurance), knocking many out of the business.
  7. Julius

    Liqueur/DSS Labeling

    After a lot of BS from Cola, we are just going to completely eliminate the word barrel on the label and replace with “reserve’ and just reference barrels in marketing material. What a shit show in DC.
  8. Southernhighlander

    grain/liquid separation

    I agree, the problem is that many still vendors just want to sell a still to the customer and they do not care what the customer actually needs. Many times the customer does not know what they need and so they go for the cheaper still. I have a set of questions that I ask most customers before I can offer them still, mash tun, fermenters and pumps, low pressure steam boiler and other heat sources Name all of the spirits that you will be producing? What will the inputs be for each spirit? How much do you want to produce per year? What is the size of your space what is the size of your distilling area What energy sources do you have available such as nat gas, propane etc What is the elevation of your site. I also typically spend around 1 hr or more with the customer the first time that they call. I use this time to steer them in the proper direction if that is what is needed. If they say that they want to do corn off of the grain, I tell them that it is a bad idea and I try to steer them in the right direction. I let them know the different ways that different spirits can be made including vodka and gin from GNS. I give them every secret that I know about craft distilling that might give them an advantage. I never upscale. I always offer them the correct equipment for their needs and budget. Many of my customers have told me that I spend more time with them and am more helpful than any of my competitors that they have spoken with. I am all about the customer, before and after the sale is complete.
  9. Glenlyon

    grain/liquid separation

    The only reason I bother separating the grain from the mash before distillation is that the still I have, has a flat bottom. Its a fucking pain in the ass to clean it out - it uses way too much water and time. So, I endure and continue on. I use a grape press - it actually does a pretty good job.
  10. Southernhighlander

    New startup question about setting up

    While the likelihood of ignition may be similar, 100 gallons of wash that is 85% ethanol has a great deal more explosive force than 100 gallons of wash that has 30% ethanol in it. It is 85 gallons of ethanol instead of 30 gallons of ethanol. 30 gallons of ethanol has 2,280,000 BTUs of energy bound up in it and 85 gallons has 6,460,000 BTUs of energy in it. So 85% is more dangerous when ignited because it has more than twice the explosive force. The explosive force of 100 gallons of 85% will kill and injure people much farther away from the still pot and do a great deal more damage than a 100 gallons of wash that is 30% ethanol. So, having 85% in the still pot does mean that the inherent danger is higher because 85 gallons of ethanol has a great deal more explosive force than 30 gallons of ethanol. It is a bigger bomb. We have been building equipment for the pharmaceutical and nutraceutical industries. This equipment uses 190 proof and 200 proof ethanol to extract oil from plant materials of many different varieties. Vacuum stills are used to reclaim the ethanol and separate out the oil. The extractions are done at around -50 degrees C. Ethanol reclamation and oil separation are done at around 87F., so the vapor never exceeds 87F. I design these systems so that there are absolutely no ignition sources in the distilling area. There are not even any explosion proof electrical components, However the truth is that the likelihood of ethanol ignition using one of these systems is very low compared to the kind of beverage ethanol distillation that most people on this forum are doing. However the powers that be dictate much tougher safety protocols when your wash vessels have 1,000 gallon capacity and your vacuum still has a 500 gallon capacity. The reason for the tougher safety protocols is because, 500 gallons of 190 proof is a really huge bomb, which of course means that the system has more inherent danger than if 30% ethanol were being used. This is the way that I must look at things, if I am to design safer systems. I have designed and sold beverage ethanol systems that are purpose built to put 190 proof in the pot, however I build them without an agitator or any other electrical devices ex or not. I do so because of the increased danger that is caused by the greater explosive and flammable forces involved. The powers that be take these greater explosive forces into account and so must I. It is all about making things safer from many different directions.
  11. Silk City Distillers

    grain/liquid separation

    Keep in mind these guys are talking about separating mash or beer, not stillage (post-distillation), so they can't pump it into totes. Separating corn or rye mash, right after mashing, pre-fermentation -> this is the absolute most difficult separation. Not only is the liquid the most viscous it will even be, it needs to be done in a sanitary manner. Even worse, if it's been cooled already, now it's impossible. I really wish people wouldn't sell stills with immersion elements to people who even remotely hint about making whiskey. Sure, the still is 1/3rd of the price of a jacket or bain marie, but now you've got to deal with the impossibility of lautering corn and rye mash.
  12. Skaalvenn

    grain/liquid separation

    The biggest challenge you'll face is finding a reliable farmer who picks up when he says he'll pick up. Not only does it spoil, but it can bring your entire operation to a halt if you can't even empty out your still. If you're in the city this becomes harder since there's less local farmers and they have more places looking to get rid of grain. Just within a few miles of us there's about 50 different breweries and distilleries who are trying to get rid of it, not to mention all the grocery stores and food salvage companies who are also looking for farmers to take their expiring produce.
  13. Southernhighlander

    grain/liquid separation

    AVAK, I agree with silk city. It will not work. It will clog right up.
  14. Southernhighlander

    grain/liquid separation

    Or you can give the mash grain and all to a row crop farmer and they can put it in their manure spreader and then put it on their field's as fertilizer. I would simply run an add listing wet stillage for sale to hog farmers. Why do it the hard way? I had no problem finding several hog farmers to buy my mash liquid and all.
  15. Silk City Distillers

    grain/liquid separation

    @Avak - Don't waste your time, it doesn't work. I have tried everything in an attempt to not need to buy a very expensive machine from Russell Finex, Kason, or Vincent. I'll tell you this, static presses do not work, period. Don't waste your time and money. The screens will occlude, the system will clog, and the mash will remain completely wet. You will not be able to safely build the pressure necessary using any kind of simple tank. The closest approach to this is a filter press, and unless it's a filter press that either has air injection or bladders, your plate sections will simply fill with wet mash. Those machines are expensive because they do work. These wiper/screw presses are fairly simple conceptually, but realize that you need to find the absolute perfect balance of screw taper, screen, wiper, back pressure, feed rate. In many cases, you are paying for the expertise needed to provide a system that works, not the specific parts. You could easily spend $20,000 trying to build a similar machine that doesn't work. The reasons that rotary screw presses and decanter centrifuges work is that they are self-cleaning and do not clog easily. They can handle variable particle sizes and significant differences in types of particles. A small bit of corn is a very different animal from a barley husk. Once you accept this, you will realize that no static filter press could ever work. That said, we use a screen, a squeegee, and a scoop. It's incredibly low tech, but is exactly how a wiper/screw press works. Squeegee is necessary to keep the screen clean and to unclog it. The trick is, never allow the tank to fill, this is bad. You need to squeegee and scoop, never allowing the screen to fill. Just like the machines work. And do it as hot as possible, the higher the temperature, the easier it is to separate. You'll need to find a balance, larger screens are easier/faster to work with, but will allow more solids through.
  16. Yesterday
  17. Roger

    New startup question about setting up

    I think a few might be looking at the flash point / fire point a bit incorrectly. Yes it may be true that as a static substance, the vapor of a 30% wash would contain less energy and have a somewhat higher flash point that a static 60% wash vapor, but that's not what we all do for a living. What we do for a living is convert that liquid into a vapor ABV% far and above the pot wash beginning virtually the moment it starts to warm up. In some cases that conversion may be from 30% to 80% almost instantly (once up to temp). So the fact that one has a 30% low wine in their still that they then transform into a 80,90% ABV spirit really has no bearing what-so-ever on the "flash point" or inherent danger or safety of the process. Again, the only way the "static wash ABV" matters, is if you had two pots side by side, neither one was being heated, and someone threw a match into both. The 30% may not go Boom, but the 60% probably would. If however you had both stills up to temperature, there would be virtually no difference in the outcome.
  18. Southernhighlander

    grain/liquid separation

    3 oaks, If you can find a hog farmer they can take it liquid and all. My family fed spent mash to hogs for years and they loved it and did very well on it. The liquid is filled with nutrients.
  19. Rickdiculous

    Turn Key distillery and Building for sale

    Do you still have the DMA? I am interested. PM me Thanks Rick
  20. Julius

    Liqueur/DSS Labeling

    Sugar added before adding to barrels. We take the final product that would normally go into bottles, and barrel it. I’m expecting a call from them today, I will report back what they say.
  21. Distiller/Production Operator Full Time 40+ hours/week. Woodinville Whiskey Co., Woodinville, WA. The Production Operator/Distiller will be involved in all aspects of mashing, fermentation, distilling, grain handling, yeast preparation, bottling and various other duties as needed. Distillery Operations • Operating and monitoring still for whiskey production • Ability to run daily grain mashes • Quality Control of all production processes: grain to glass • Proofing spirit for barreling • Barreling of spirit • Filtering of spirits • Loading/unloading barrel/grain/bottle shipments • Forklift operation • Record keeping/administrative duties • Ability to assist with offsite/onsite distillery events when needed • Bottling of spirits/maintaining/supporting bottling operations • Cleaning/Sanitization of equipment • Keeping a clean work environment Overall Responsibilities: • Responsible for quality in all phases of production • Performance of all tasks safely and with regard for quality as required by supervisor • Maintains a high regard for the quality of the product produced and the work performed • Able to safely operate a fork lift for various duties in distillery Physical Requirements: • Heavy lifting up to 100 lbs. • Kneeling/bending/squatting/stretching/overhead lifting Qualifications • Can do attitude/self-starter • Works successfully with others and independently • Must be a multi-tasker and organized • Ability to follow direction and be reliable • Willingness and eagerness to learn • Good verbal and written communication skills • Distilling/brewing experience a plus • Strong problem-solving/troubleshooting skills • Mechanically inclined • Willingness to work weekends if requested • Flexible hours including evenings, holidays, weekends Please submit resume and cover letter to brett@woodinvillewhiskeyco.com
  22. Avak

    grain/liquid separation

    Hi. I have a similar problem. My plan is to re-purpose a small SS conical fermentor to make a press. I plan to cut a circle of perforated SS sheet just a bit smaller than the inside diameter. This is dropped inside, making a self-centering false bottom. Pump the mash into this filter/fermentor slowly and let it drain through on its way to the chiller. Once the mash tun is empty, drop a circle of SS sheet on top of the wet grain. Rig the pump to suck from the bottom of the filter/fermentor and pump. Atmospheric pressure on top of the non-perforated sheet squishes the grain like a grape press. I can see potential problems if your pump generates a crushing vacuum. Check out the pump specs first. It will say the height the pump will prime itself. This can be 5 meters (7.5 psi) for a FIT pump. This is serious pressure. Over the area of a 24 inch disc, that is over 1000 lbs. A "T" in the suction line hooked to a water vacuum break should prevent "squashed beer can" surprises. Another potential problem is a poor seal around the non-perforated disc. A circle of polyfilm 2" larger than the disc laid between disc and grain should provide a seal. If it works as planned, you still need to get the compressed grain out. A floating rope (Spectra, Dyneema) attached to the center of the perforated disc should end up on top of the grain "cookie" when the non-perforated disc is removed. This hasn't made it to the top of my project list, but i will keep you posted. Avak
  23. bluestar

    Liqueur/DSS Labeling

    Yeah, I wondered about that, by using the word whiskey, and calling it a liqueur, if the base spirit is not a whiskey, it could be mistaken for a whiskey liqueur, which has a specific meaning in the CFR. But that problem usually shows up with the COLA evaluation, but not the FONL. So, you may be right, this initially is what tripped the COLA rejection, but still does not explain the FONL reclassification.
  24. bluestar

    Liqueur/DSS Labeling

    You could push back, although I would have someone read over your formulation to make sure something else isn't tripping the DSS classification. They make mistakes, and more importantly, you own their mistake, meaning if they later figure out it is classified wrong, they can make you change it back. Do you "age" the product before or after you add the sugar?
  25. Southernhighlander

    New startup question about setting up

    I agree, we use WEG for all of our smaller stuff and Hitachi for our larger stuff. We are vendorrs for both companies and our prices are better than most of our competitors on drives. Everyone should stay away from the Chinese ones. We tried some of them in the beginning and they were all junk.
  26. Silk City Distillers

    New startup question about setting up

    Even if I had 3 phase I’d still run though a VFD - and I’d have one that has over current monitoring and protection. Slow start, motor protection, reversing, speed control - VFD is always the way to go. For what you get for a few hundred bucks, worth every penny.
  27. Southernhighlander

    New startup question about setting up

    Hi Avak, All of our pro series equipment comes with VFD drives that can be wired in single phase or 3 phase to produce 3 phase power to the agitator. The VFD drives also give the agitators variable speed and reversing capabilities. So if you are in a rural area or if you are just in a space that only has single phase power, hat is no problem. We also do the same with all of our pumps. We can also accommodate most any voltage including single phase 208,220,230,240,460 and 480 as well as 3 phase 208, 220,230,240, 460, 480 and 600. Also we are one of the few companies that have electric heating system for our baine Marie stills in single phase 208,220,230,240,460 and 48 as well as 3 phase 208,220,230,240,460 and 480. We can usually give the customer whatever they need. http://distillery-equipment.com http://moonshine-still.co http://triclamp.co
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