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  1. 2 points
    Well fellas, I figured out the problem and wanted to run a batch successfully before posting on here. After checking everything suggested... I rechecked my enzymes and have apparently been using beta-glucanase as my beta-amylase since the last order (when the problem started). I usually order a high-temp alpha, beta, and beta glucanase. I apparently ordered 2 beta glucanase containers and never second guessed it. I put them in the usual places in the cooler and have been grabbing them like usual, not looking at the actual containers. I was even placing the beta glucanase in the cup labeled betaamylase...a small oversight, but an incredibly frustrating and expense learning lesson. I'm glad that the problem is easily solved...but incredibly disappointed in my oversight. I've successfully fermented 2 batches since realizing the issue, all ferment fully and taste great. I appreciate everyone's suggestions and help along the way. Best.
  2. 1 point
    Just under a year from deciding to do a distillery we had our federal and state licenses in hand. From the time we signed our lease on the space and could submit paperwork it took about 8 months to get open.
  3. 1 point
    About two years, zoning issues and state licensing delays were the two main factors. We paid rent for nearly a year with no income. Be sure to budget for delays like this, I'm glad we did.
  4. 1 point
    I was wondering if any of you have had any positive interactions with the USDA regarding utilizing the value added grants and the wets grant for energy efficiency upgrades, etc. I'm going to contact them and try and find out what can be done in regard to estate grown items like bourbon inputs, etc. I'm curious what your mileage with them has yielded. I've found some good google search results. It would be fantastic to get real world feedback from one of the champions of the bureaucracy.
  5. 1 point
    Took 2.5 years on my last project but the city was difficult to deal with and created costly delays that added up to several months. A smaller project I did before that took 18 months from inception to build out to finished product in bottles. The big challenge that is often unexpected for people starting a distillery is that it takes a long time to build accounts and sales to really start generating substantial revenue, after you have spirits in bottles.
  6. 1 point
    From final decision to go for it until first distillation was 16 months, 18 months until opened doors to public. At least 6 or 7 years of thinking about it until we decided to go for it.
  7. 1 point
    From having the idea until opening the tasting room was less than 2 years. 21 months from signing a lease until opening, 16 months from signing lease until turning the still on to make alcohol.
  8. 1 point
    Just looking thought old images.. 3/28/2012 - Location locked in. 5/30/2012 - Date on a hand drawn plan for the still I built. 8/15/2012 - PLCB paper work mailed everything else 12/24/2013 - First bottle sold So yeah, about two years and I did not have any zoning related delays.
  9. 1 point
    I first encountered the idea of owning a distillery waaay back in the late nineties when I was shooting a wine series. The winemaker in question wistfully painted this idyllic scene of the happy European distiller frolicking naked through the fields. Well, perhaps he didn't say quite that, but the dream was planted over a wee dram of his 'home-distilled' product - a black walnut liqueur. However, I only seriously began to re-consider the idea about two years ago when a friend of mine and I started doing our own home distilling. In no time flat we'd brewed up more booze than we could possibly drink and it became obvious, unless we were going to sell the stuff - there wasen't much point in continuing. My friend chose to stay home, but I ventured into the field - being the foolish entrepreneur that I am. The first hurdle I faced has taken a year to get over - rezoning the chosen property for the distillery. (Passed into law only yesterday! Yay!) Next is the provincial and federal process which will take about 4 - 6 months. Then, we're planning for another six month delay as we refine the product for sale. So, conservatively - you are looking at two years - unless you choose an already zoned environment in which case, I'd plan for a year. If you are paying rent, that's a year of expenses with no income, so plan accordingly. I've said before, alcohol is a business of patience. The upside of this, is while you are waiting for your permits etc., you are given ample time to build your market. Lot's of people wait to build the market until they have a product in hand, but then you loose the slow burn of anticipation and word of mouth. I've sat on a local bus while two people behind me discussed the opening of the distillery. They got some of the details wrong, but they were keen. That's what you can't buy. Another fantastic quote I've picked up somewhere and whoever said it was brilliant - "No one can tell you how to open a distillery, you just have to do it." I second that. Not to mention, its great fun.
  10. 1 point
    And that folks, is why you buy Alcodens.
  11. 1 point
    We only use ro water for cutting. us water systems.
  12. 1 point
    Bluestar - I asked TTB some similar questions about a month ago and below are their responses. I didn't ask you final question directly but from part of my phone conversation with them we can have a designated space that serves as an alternating premise. For example you could have a bottling room that serves both the DSP as well as the winery. So as I interpreted it, part of the DSP could be an alternating premise in which the winery products could pass. Hope that helps a little. What kind of separation is required between the winery and distillery? The separation must be floor to ceiling with no passable access between the two operations Does it need to be a wall and completely separated space with separate entrances? Yes, unless the main entrance is into a common general area with separate access from that area into each operations that is lockable from the operations side. If we were to ferment wine and later distill it, would that have to be transferred to the DSP with the appropriate forms similar to wine transfers between separate entities? Wine can be transferred from the winery to the distillery, wineries for not have to submit transfer in bond paperwork, but both the winery and the distillery will need to notate their daily records of these transfers. Are we able to operate under the same entity? Yes, a single entity can hold multiple permits (both type and location). Is there anything else unusual beyond the regular winery permit requirements? There is nothing unusual about this type of winery application, unless both the DSP and the winery will be sharing the same space and the same equipment. In that case the original winery application would show that they are an alternating proprietor with the DSP as the host and them as the tenant. If this is the case the DSP will also need to amend their permit for the change to an alternating proprietor with the winery.
  13. 1 point
    Thank you for your thoughtful inquiries and takeaways here. Really, truly, very much appreciated. We’re strong believers in questioning everything (hence the question mark in the tail of the squirrel in our logo). It’s a bit ironic actually, the Squarrel business was built on the essence of questioning everything about traditional barrels. What’s the purpose of a barrel? To age and mature a spirit, to add tasty oak-y flavors, both? How much wood is actually needed to do that? Is all of it really needed, or as research has shown us- is only about 1/4 inch from each 2 inch stave (on average) creating flavor? (It’s the latter, obviously.) Can we make a beneficial impact on a natural resource by raising awareness for inefficiencies in the process? How can we help a beautiful industry become even greater? So thank you for your input and please keep checking in on us. Though Squarrel is a new addition to the industry the people behind it have been involved in different facets- from distillation of course to malting to farming to equipment design to cooperage-ing- just one of the reasons we’re so excited to bring this product to market. We want to make the process better because we’ve been there too- we’ve dealt with barrel issues, with the nuances of recipe formulation, with equipment that isn’t as perfect as it looks. We are designing this in order to make your life a slight bit easier because we understand how difficult it can be but also how rewarding it can be when it works. Squarrel is a new product that will be released soon so we do indeed plan to bring loads more information to the public as it comes together. We will have more analytical information, more sensory evaluations, more details from our focus groups and initial customers. I’ll post some of it here and will have samples at the conferences too, so stay tuned!
  14. 1 point
    I've used brokers in all control states to various but mainly unimpressive results. Getting menus and features printed is more complicated w brokers over distributors and you're better off doing it yourself in most cases. On top of that, their coverage is limited in those states, they don't hit full markets, they try to group you with their other brands in promotions etc. to the detriment of your own brand (its never about whats good for your single brand, but their portfolio as a whole- where as distrib. will have profit in the success of your brand individually). In most states brokers cannot even take or fulfill orders, and my main issue with them is the lack of reporting. In states where brokers would be valuable, reporting is limited and usually unavailable, so their reporting to you will be incomplete. Fuck brokers. Do the leg work yourself and save the margin for yourself, its just another leech trying to pull value from sales you and your brand likely generated for yourself.
  15. 1 point
    3-basin sink AND a separate utility sink (mop sink) are required. The latter can be a floor sink. It appears you have no plans to barrel age any product, at least you have no room in that layout. You aren't expecting to condition the air in that production room using a window AC in the summer, are you? If you are not going to use chilled fermenters, you need to control the room temperature well.
  16. 1 point
    Are you going to use a chiller for cooling stills or well water? Up to 10 HP you can get chillers in 208-230/1/60, outdoor you'll need glycol mix for the chiller if you have any freeze issues. I do carry a "dry" glycol cooler to satisfy cooling in winter, popular up Northern US. Usually farm distillers don't have 3 phase power and water wells that don't satisfy the usage for distillery cooling.
  17. 1 point
    Concur - stay flexible your layout will change. Extend that floor drain as much as possible to give you flexibility down the road. That storeroom behind the fermenters is going to be a disaster to work with.
  18. 1 point
    Lose all the walls you can! Mass space will be more important than segregating things. Start with a three bay sink, so you won't have to change it. I see molasses, so rum? Good would be turning a molasses ferment in three days. Your fermentation tanks should be at least six times your still capacity. How often do you want to distill and how fast can you turn a ferment?
  19. 1 point
    Bathrooms clearly aren't ADA compliant. Plan on a 7x7 box with nothing fancy -- forget about a urinal and stool. Google "Standard ADA bathroom" and you'll get a million hits. We have two identical. Both unisex. Both dull and utilitarian. Seems to work OK. You'll want to have forklift access to your storage, i.e. approach from the widest dimension. You'll forever be fighting yourself entering from the "end" of the room. Heaping on to what others have said, I think you need twice the amount of fermenters. Be caution of the on demand heater -- consider what happens to flow rate if both bathrooms and your kitchen area are using hot water at once. Think about having your RO close to where you intend to proof/gauge You'll want a rolling lockable tool chest. Harbor freight is your friend. You'll want a I dont see a furnace / mechanical room. We cheaped out the first winter and used only a fireplace (hey, lean times!) and still heat to heat our entire building. Got dinged twice by inspectors when temp fell below 68. You'll need a water softener in front of your RO system. Think about process hose storage; hose bib locations, 220 outlets for pumps, electrical drops from the ceiling, need for 3-phase power, location of NEMA approved enclosure for VFDs, etc, Fridge for yeast storage (you dont want to store your gogurt with your EC-1118) Where does your electrical drop come in? Just stating the obvious but that dictates where your electrical room will/should be.
  20. 1 point
    Download a scanner app from the app store and use your smartphone.
  21. 1 point
    In most jurisdictions you will need a minimum of 2 ADA Compliant restrooms.
  22. 1 point
    At a quick glance definitely not enough fermenters unless you are planning to be part time.
  23. 1 point
    A few things, I'm not sure where you are located, but do you need to send your plans to the city/county/state for approval? If so you do not look ADA compliant in particular with regards to your bathrooms, also it seems like a lot of toilets/urinals for the space. Secondly, most state health inspectors are going to require a 3-bay sink, not just a two bay. Fire code wise, your electrical panel probably doesn't have proper access. You also probably don't have enough space set aside for mechanical. Two fermentors to feed two stills doesn't seem to be a good match. With 20 foot ceilings, I would try to use space over the retail room for storage, and perhaps an office. TTB will most likely want a separate door to your production space, not to mention just for fire escapes.
  24. 1 point
    We considered a small (3 GPM) DI column for post RO but have never had any issue with visible crap in our bottles. If it aint broke don't fix it.
  25. 1 point
    Very interesting find here. Some good points and I would have to agree with the side that says there is plenty of room for growth. The way I see it, is this is a changing industry as growth continues. No offense, but if you are sing an end near, then you have already given up. I get it, people are afraid of change, but change is constant and an opportunity to do things different with added knowledge. Time for people to embrace change and evolve with the business. The same thing happened in the craft beer segment and that is exactly why I am here. Rather than opening another brewery and trying to adapt with the saturation I saw a chance to get into and industry that is years behind craft beer. Most distilleries before me have focused on the mass production and distribution model. I have decided to follow the craft beer model (as mentioned before) and go with a tasting room forward and innovative model. Were are slated to open by the end of the year and have a 2500 sqft tasting room with another 3000sqft outdoor "drink garden". Our production will be based on laughter with clean/closed fermentation and 1 stripping still and 2 spirits stills, one for botanical and one for flavor positive starches. We will produce about 30 different labels a year, some seasonal and one-offs. All small bath on a 10bbl brewhouse yielding about 60 gallons per batch. Intentions are to sell as much in-house and whatever is left over to liquor stores. Rather than trying to flood all liquor stores we will have a product that will only be on certain liquor store shelf's who are brand loyal ensuring that our product has proper pull-through. One comment I found interesting was the 1000g for beer at $8 a glass. In my area its more like $7 a glass, but non the less that is about $56,000 on a 1000g batch. On the same 1000g system with a 10% yield you get $170 $68,000 assuming you sell a 1.5 oz shot for $8. Now get your yields up to 20% and sell your drink for $10 (comps in my area) you get $170k. Sounds pretty good, right. I might be a little ambitious, but I've been in the beer industry long enough to know that if you work hard and produce a quality product for a local market building a loyal brand all while being innovative, then you will be successful. I am not afraid one bit at all and I am excited to be a part of the upswing of a budding industry.
  26. 1 point
    Perhaps what we actually need are more small distilleries. If people have a local distillery they are stoked on, and a connection will the people who run it, then they will seek out new distilleries when they they travel or as they open. Especially if they can go there and try a flight of there products without dropping 20-80$ just to try it. Think we have a lot to learn from the craft beer model, and cooperation between distilleries. It doesn't work if everyone is trying to take away business from everyone else.
  27. 1 point
    We have not had to deal with a distibutor yet, but I would expect that they want 20-30% margin. Retailers want 20-30% as well. So if you are selling in a 3 tier state, you will sell to the wholesaler for about 50% of the retail price. Margin is a % of selling price, different than markup which is a % increase from cost or purchase price. A 30% margin is 43% markup. Imho this is an industry where retail prices are set more by the market, than by what it costs to make. This is not your normal 4 or 5 times cost business. The only way to break out of that seems to be to make a premium whisky and have good name recognition to command a premium price.
  28. 1 point
    "Most customers aren't easily deceived for long don't care in an open market place." There, fixed it for you.
  29. 1 point
    1 lb/hr steam flow per gallon of capacity. this will get you a heat up time of about an hour from cold to pushing vapor. this translates out to a bit better than 1000btus per gallon, gas input so typically for a 300 gallon still and 300 gallon mash cooker, you want at minimum a 600,000btu boiler
  30. 0 points
    Introduction Over the last decade I have had the opportunity to help dozens and dozens of craft distillers with developing and designing their gins. I want to use this thread to help lay out some of the basic guidelines I learned, that make the production of great gin quite easy and straight forward. Over the coming days (and depending on comments and my time in the factory) or weeks, I want to get most of the information (if not all) that we give on our gin making courses across. Now, gin making has a wide set of variables. And a lot of people adhere to certain approaches. If ever you feel my approaches or opinions to be contrary to yours, let's turn this thread into a discussion, not a battle ground. I for one will not. Just sharing info, not trying to convince anyone. Use the info or not. It's here (or it will be) and I will share it so you can use it. A few things on gin. Basically, let's dive into procedures, herbs bills, distillation techniques. But I want to start with a general outline on taste. Just to make or introduce a starting point. When I make whiskey, I find the late heads, smearing into hearts, to be fruity. Front of mouth oriented. You taste them first and you taste them on your lips and the front of your tongue. The body, the grain, comes over after that. Hearts. Middle mouth feeling. Early tails, that smear into the last portion of hearts, have a nutty, root-like taste (if you give them time to develop) and are tasted at the back of your mouth towards the throat. Now, in my experience, the same holds true for a gin: it's the fruity bits that come over first, then the body, then the root-like, nutty flavors. So if you want to make a floral gin ... don't add root-like, nutty things to your gin recipe. And cut a bit earlier. If you want a full-bodied gin that lingers in your mouth and can be consumed neat ... do add those nutty, root-like components. And cut a bit later, since these tastes come over during the last part of the run. Okay, that was the introductionary post. More on herbs bills and aging gin and procedures in future posts! Regards, Odin.
  31. 0 points
    That is really hot for malt addition. You don't really need to boil corn or wheat either. I bring corn up to 190 for 90 min, drop to 160 and add rye/wheat or both, rest 40 min, drop to 147 and add malt. The rye step is around 154 (start milling in at 160 but temp drop with grain add, same with malt).
  32. 0 points
    Every time I see one of his posts pop up a vision comes to mind of a big puff of white smoke blasting out of the window of a high rise followed by a skinny little dweeb, arms and legs flailing as he plummets to the earth below.
  33. 0 points
    Geez this guy's an asshole.
  34. 0 points
    I've been too busy to look here much lately. Nonbeverage bitters are not covered by TTB labeling requirements. They are covered by the FDA labeling rules for foods. You may not make nonbeverage products on DSP premises (19.344(b). See also the definition of eligible flavors at 19.1. You may alternate DSP premises to premises for the production of eligible flavors (`19.143(a)(4). The rules re the manufacture of nonbeverage products are not found in part 19. See part 17. Basically, the DSP pays the tax on the removal to the nonbeverage facility, and the manufacturer then claims a drawback of $1.00 less than the tax rate (which makes it $12.50 a pg) for all products made under a formula TTB has approved for the product manufactured.
  35. 0 points
    I have supplied chiller systems for several of Paul's projects, of which there no problems, and I continue to supply chillers to his customers.
  36. 0 points
    We use a TIS model just like Southernhighlander is offering. The short answer is: they work great. They work even better and faster if you have very cold water to work with. I would not pick a different path to cool my grain-in mash.
  37. 0 points
    Bank vs. investor - is one of those nasty: 'It depends'... You need to ask yourself at the very, very beginning - am I creating this business to enrich myself and my lifestyle - or - am I building this business to make money for other people? If you are wanting to enrich yourself - you are establishing a 'founder's based business'. Otherwise, you are creating an 'investment grade business'. So, here is the 'depends'... If you are creating a founder's based business, a bank loan, although difficult to get - is the better way to go. For one reason - they are predicable. You know the payment schedule, the interest rate and the time frame. As long as you operate within these constraints, you're gold. Your goal as the business operator is to make money. The more money, the richer the happy business owner and paying the loan is no problem. Even if you have a challenging cash flow projection. A clever bank will recognize this and will structure the loan accordingly. How do you find a bank that will listen to you? Don't bother - look for a credit union instead. You will have a lot more luck with less paperwork. That being said, you better present a killer business plan and as much collateral as possible. I won't get into the complexities of an investment grade business but, I will say in the long run it will be vastly more expensive to operate with investors and their attendant opinions and associated problems. Investors are for bigger companies with a management team that can handle them. Don't forget, starting a distillery will suck up cash faster than you can possibly imagine. For example, your choice of window frame color can affect the window invoice by over 30%. Handicapped bathrooms? Who knew? And that's just a few examples. No one thinks of these kinds of things when they are creating the business plan. Banks or investors not withstanding, you need to have your own money one the table and you are going to need a lot. My pico distillery is closing in on $300K and I'm month's away from opening and by the time I do, I'll probably be out $400K+. With that kind of a budget, you can fly around the world and amass one hell of an alcohol collection and still have $100k in your pocket. So, consider the dream carefully and double down on the business plan! Make those numbers sing! I also should add - I operate in BC Canada - where our regulatory system is vastly superior to most American jurisdictions, featuring fewer rules, a better tax system and a clearer road to profitability. Easier for the banks to understand - something else to keep in mind. I guess.
  38. 0 points
    A distributor distributes what sells. You make, market and sell spirits. If you don't think you should be the one marketing and selling, your distributor won't be distributing very much.
  39. 0 points
    These small chillers usually have a small reservoir to feed the internal pump. Still return water may be too high, so you may have to add an external reservoir with a separate pump and disable the chiller internal tank (it is atmospheric and water will come out the top on you). I purchase similar chillers and buy them without the internal tank.
  40. 0 points
    27 CFR 19.5 - Manufacturing products unfit for beverage use. § 19.5 Manufacturing products unfit for beverage use. (a)General. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, apothecaries, pharmacists, or manufacturers who manufacture or compound any of the following products using tax paid or tax determined distilled spirits are not required to register and qualify as a distilled spirits plant (processor): (1) Medicines, medicinal preparations, food products, flavors, flavoring extracts, and perfume, conforming to the standards for approval of nonbeverage drawback products found in §§ 17.131 through 17.137 of this chapter, whether or not drawback is actually claimed on those products. Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, a formula does not need to be submitted if drawback is not desired; (2) Patented and proprietary medicines that are unfit for use for beverage purposes; (3) Toilet, medicinal, and antiseptic preparations and solutions that are unfit for use for beverage purposes; (4) Laboratory reagents, stains, and dyes that are unfit for use for beverage purposes; and (5) Flavoring extracts, syrups, and concentrates that are unfit for use for beverage purposes. (b)Exception for beverage products. Products identified in part 17 of this chapter as being fit for beverage use are alcoholic beverages. Bitters, patent medicines, and similar alcoholic preparations that are fit for beverage purposes, although held out as having certain medicinal properties, are also alcoholic beverages. These products are subject to the provisions of this part and must be manufactured on the bonded premises of a distilled spirits plant. (c)Submission of formulas and samples. When requested by the appropriate TTB officer or when the manufacturer wishes to ascertain whether a product is unfit for beverage use, the manufacturer will submit the formula and a sample of the product to the appropriate TTB officer for examination. TTB will determine whether the product is unfit for beverage use and whether manufacture of the product is exempt from qualification requirements. (d)Change of formula. If TTB finds that a product manufactured under paragraph (a) of this section is being used for beverage purposes, or for mixing with beverage spirits other than by a processor, TTB will notify the manufacturer to stop manufacturing the product until the formula is changed to make the product unfit for beverage use and the change is approved by the appropriate TTB officer. However, the provisions of this paragraph will not prohibit products which are unfit for beverage use from use in small quantities for flavoring drinks at the time of serving for immediate consumption. ( 26 U.S.C. 5002, 5171) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've always been amazed that Angostura bitters are on the shelf with cocktail mixers at grocery stores, yet are 44%.
  41. 0 points
    https://wine.appstate.edu/sites/wine.appstate.edu/files/Diversey_PassivationofStainlessSteel.pdf We are removing iron exposed by wear and exposing chromium so that it can form a protective oxide layer. This oxide layer renders the steel 'passive' to further corrosion until it is damaged again. Oxidation takes time, so passivation is best done with a large time gap (at least overnight) between completing the acid cycle and using the equipment.
  42. 0 points
    We've been recycling in the ferment with good results so far. The cuts grew over a few batches by a total of 20%, but stabilized there. We're actually more likely to see fewer heads out than we put in and have been slowly working through the barrels of heads we put away before trying this. Yields are up, with some losses vs 100% conversion of heads to good spirit.
  43. 0 points
    Nope, definately not ASD's manufacturer. Makes you wonder why they would make that claim though.
  44. 0 points
    We are outgrowing our original potstill. This is a 120 gallon capacity potstill with thumper. It was custom manufactured for us in 2014 using a Groen steam kettle as the foundation. In the top of the still head is a basket where copper mesh can be placed if desired, or potentially gin botanicals. The thumper can be bypassed for straight potstill runs. Two efficient stainless condensers knock down vapors using well water. Kettle is rated for high pressure steam, but we ran it with 15 psi low pressure steam. Two 300L receiver tanks collect heads, hearts or tails as desired. 1.5" TC connections. Skid mounted, measures 4'w x 8' l x 11' h. Asking $6500 FOB. Still is located in Pittsboro NC 27312.
  45. 0 points
    As another poster quite rightly pointed out, your market isn't here. All the best.
  46. 0 points
    Jeff, Under a given set of conditions, there is an optimum cooking temperature and time to obtain the best quality of distillate and the best alcohol yield. I believe the question you have is about cooking small grains at high temperatures. There are a lot of ways to prepare grains for fermentation, but the simple goal of cooking is to gelatinize the starch granules, to make them available for hydrolysis by enzymes to convert to fermentable sugars but the complicated goal is to efficiently obtain proper gelatinization of starch, properly free up amino acids the yeast require, convert to fermentable sugars, reduce contamination and obtain a flavor extraction from the grains. The infusion mashing process we use, (simply cooking small grains at lower & proper temperatures), here at Wilderness Trail is designed around maximizing flavor first, energy second and time third. You do not have to boil your grains up to 210F and you certainly do not want to cook any of your small grains (wheat, rye, barley, malted barley, etc) in that range, again you can but it will not be the highest quality distillate you can obtain in the end if you do that. You can cook corn to 210F and it doesn't do much more than waste energy cooking it that high, part of the high heat is to sterilize the grains of bacteria and you take care of that around 190F and you only need to cook corn around 190F-185F for proper gelatinization, we cook our corn at 190F, it saves energy from going higher, we convert all of the available sugars and sterilize our grains, that is why you do it. For wheat the actual gelatinization range is 136F-146F but we start adding our wheat around 155-160F. For Rye the actual range is 135F-158F and we add and cook our Rye no higher than 160F for good reasons. Our Malted barley never goes in higher than 145F to preserve the enzymatic activity and to keep the grains intact. Think of it this way, gelatinization is like popping popcorn under water, its a dramatic change in the grains composition.. and throw in some smaller ductile grains like wheat or rye and you blow them apart under the same conditions as well as a lot of protein you don't want to break down. The reasons you do not cook grains beyond their proper gelatinization range is more about flavor than yield because if it is too rigorous, thermal decomposition of grain components will cause objectionable popcorn phenolic odors, yield is more impacted by poor grains, under cooking, poor conversion and yeast conditions. By using the infusion mashing process for small grains, you keep the branched chain amino acids and proteins in place with the grains that the yeast will use to properly make a flavorful result. If you boil your small grains, you are creating unbranched chain amino acids, degrading proteins and frankly blowing apart the flavor you are trying to extract. Small grains also get scorched very easy and there are Maillard effects that create all kinds of new chemicals from the high heat of small grains you don't want, plus why would you, the process doesn't require it. The yeast take these unbranched chain and Maillard effect's and turns them into higher alcohols (fusels) and other chemicals that alter the flavor and result of the beer & distillate. In short summary for our whiskeys, we cook our corn to 190F and hold that for 40 minutes, we cool to 160F by adding some water additions of the overall mashbill and add our wheat or Rye and hold that for 30 minutes, we add more water additions to get to 145F which is when we add our Malted Barley which rest for 30 minutes. We add the rest of our water additions for our ferm set and the chiller takes it down to 90F. We send that to our fermenters, which are set to hold at 85F for three day beer and 78F for 4-5 day beer. By shortening the initial cook of the total water, your initial cook is thicker, for us that is around 18 beer gallons and that allows you to use less energy to heat up the initial cook and reserve the rest of the water for cooling capacity as well as when you add your grains you are also using that to help cool your mash down. For example I mentioned we add our wheat at 160F but after the grains are added the temperature drops to around 150F+ and rest out to a little above 145F. We primarily make a wheated Bourbon but we also make a Rye Whiskey, which again even though the Rye will be the majority of grains, we still cook our smaller amount of Corn up to 190F and then cool it down to 160F before adding the majority of the mashbill of Rye. Infusion mashing is scientifically proven to offer a more flavorful distillate and smoother distillate, mainly for the reasons listed above. Shane Baker Co-Founder, Master Distiller Wilderness Trail Distillery
  47. 0 points
    Personally after going through the process I would want all building permits in hand at a minimum. For us it took longer to get permits from the city than to get our dsp. We did have the state stop in to verify what we were doing.
  48. 0 points
    It is an excellent business model, but one I have chosen not to emulate. If those of us who are grain-to-glass really want to have an impact on the public awareness about the difference, we will need to band together to publicize and market the difference.
  49. 0 points
    We run our 1.5" and 2" hoses directly into our trench drain (with the grate removed) when we're emptying liquid stillage or whatever else -- that slot drain would not allow for that. It looks cool though.
  50. 0 points
    Licenses, permits, registrations. Okay - we need to review the ABC's of distilled spirits plants. First, you do not need to have a still to be a distilled spirits plant. There are three kinds of DSP operations. They are production (distilling), warehousing (storing bulk spirits) and processing ("making adjustments, " as you put it, or bottling). Any of these operations must be conducted on distilled spirits plant bonded premises. You can qualify in a number of ways. Basically, you can qualify for any combination of the three, but you cannot qualify to process only (to process you must be either a distiller and processor, or warehouse man and processor, or distiller, warehouse man and processor). Now, if you get product bottled for you, and that is all you do, then you are not going to qualify as a DSP, because (1) bottled spirits cannot be transferred in bond and (2) you therefore are not engaged in any distilled spirits plant operations (distilling, warehousing, or bottling spirits on which tax has not been paid or determined). If you buy bottled spirits for resale at wholesale, you have to get a basic permit as a wholesaler, not as a DSP. If you buy bulk spirits to bottle yourself, then you would need to qualify as distilled spirits plant that warehouses and processes. Bottling is a processing operation, but remember the rule, you may not be just a processor. A basic permit and registration for warehousing operations only allows you to store bulk spirits, as in a storage area for barrels, and nothing else. What are bulk spirits? They are spirits in containers of one gallon or more. It is illegal for a DSP to ship bulk spirits, other than industrial alcohol, to anyone who is not qualified as a distilled spirits plant. You can trace through all of this by looking at the definitions in part 19 and the basic permit requirements of part 1. It is important that you understand these basics. And yes, mucking about with the spirits makes you a "rectifier," a term that now appears only in part 1. Strip it from your language when you talk about distilled spirits plants. Substitute processor. Forgive me, but to advertise shamelessly - which I don't often do on these forums, where I offer advice for free - these are the kinds of issues I spend a day discussing at SIPS training. Check it out if you are interested. .
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