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  1. 6 likes
    Jeff, Under a given set of conditions, there is an optimum cooking temperature and time to obtain the best quality of distillate and the best alcohol yield. I believe the question you have is about cooking small grains at high temperatures. There are a lot of ways to prepare grains for fermentation, but the simple goal of cooking is to gelatinize the starch granules, to make them available for hydrolysis by enzymes to convert to fermentable sugars but the complicated goal is to efficiently obtain proper gelatinization of starch, properly free up amino acids the yeast require, convert to fermentable sugars, reduce contamination and obtain a flavor extraction from the grains. The infusion mashing process we use, (simply cooking small grains at lower & proper temperatures), here at Wilderness Trail is designed around maximizing flavor first, energy second and time third. You do not have to boil your grains up to 210F and you certainly do not want to cook any of your small grains (wheat, rye, barley, malted barley, etc) in that range, again you can but it will not be the highest quality distillate you can obtain in the end if you do that. You can cook corn to 210F and it doesn't do much more than waste energy cooking it that high, part of the high heat is to sterilize the grains of bacteria and you take care of that around 190F and you only need to cook corn around 190F-185F for proper gelatinization, we cook our corn at 190F, it saves energy from going higher, we convert all of the available sugars and sterilize our grains, that is why you do it. For wheat the actual gelatinization range is 136F-146F but we start adding our wheat around 155-160F. For Rye the actual range is 135F-158F and we add and cook our Rye no higher than 160F for good reasons. Our Malted barley never goes in higher than 145F to preserve the enzymatic activity and to keep the grains intact. Think of it this way, gelatinization is like popping popcorn under water, its a dramatic change in the grains composition.. and throw in some smaller ductile grains like wheat or rye and you blow them apart under the same conditions as well as a lot of protein you don't want to break down. The reasons you do not cook grains beyond their proper gelatinization range is more about flavor than yield because if it is too rigorous, thermal decomposition of grain components will cause objectionable popcorn phenolic odors, yield is more impacted by poor grains, under cooking, poor conversion and yeast conditions. By using the infusion mashing process for small grains, you keep the branched chain amino acids and proteins in place with the grains that the yeast will use to properly make a flavorful result. If you boil your small grains, you are creating unbranched chain amino acids, degrading proteins and frankly blowing apart the flavor you are trying to extract. Small grains also get scorched very easy and there are Maillard effects that create all kinds of new chemicals from the high heat of small grains you don't want, plus why would you, the process doesn't require it. The yeast take these unbranched chain and Maillard effect's and turns them into higher alcohols (fusels) and other chemicals that alter the flavor and result of the beer & distillate. In short summary for our whiskeys, we cook our corn to 190F and hold that for 40 minutes, we cool to 160F by adding some water additions of the overall mashbill and add our wheat or Rye and hold that for 30 minutes, we add more water additions to get to 145F which is when we add our Malted Barley which rest for 30 minutes. We add the rest of our water additions for our ferm set and the chiller takes it down to 90F. We send that to our fermenters, which are set to hold at 85F for three day beer and 78F for 4-5 day beer. By shortening the initial cook of the total water, your initial cook is thicker, for us that is around 18 beer gallons and that allows you to use less energy to heat up the initial cook and reserve the rest of the water for cooling capacity as well as when you add your grains you are also using that to help cool your mash down. For example I mentioned we add our wheat at 160F but after the grains are added the temperature drops to around 150F+ and rest out to a little above 145F. We primarily make a wheated Bourbon but we also make a Rye Whiskey, which again even though the Rye will be the majority of grains, we still cook our smaller amount of Corn up to 190F and then cool it down to 160F before adding the majority of the mashbill of Rye. Infusion mashing is scientifically proven to offer a more flavorful distillate and smoother distillate, mainly for the reasons listed above. Shane Baker Co-Founder, Master Distiller Wilderness Trail Distillery
  2. 5 likes
    Introduction Over the last decade I have had the opportunity to help dozens and dozens of craft distillers with developing and designing their gins. I want to use this thread to help lay out some of the basic guidelines I learned, that make the production of great gin quite easy and straight forward. Over the coming days (and depending on comments and my time in the factory) or weeks, I want to get most of the information (if not all) that we give on our gin making courses across. Now, gin making has a wide set of variables. And a lot of people adhere to certain approaches. If ever you feel my approaches or opinions to be contrary to yours, let's turn this thread into a discussion, not a battle ground. I for one will not. Just sharing info, not trying to convince anyone. Use the info or not. It's here (or it will be) and I will share it so you can use it. A few things on gin. Basically, let's dive into procedures, herbs bills, distillation techniques. But I want to start with a general outline on taste. Just to make or introduce a starting point. When I make whiskey, I find the late heads, smearing into hearts, to be fruity. Front of mouth oriented. You taste them first and you taste them on your lips and the front of your tongue. The body, the grain, comes over after that. Hearts. Middle mouth feeling. Early tails, that smear into the last portion of hearts, have a nutty, root-like taste (if you give them time to develop) and are tasted at the back of your mouth towards the throat. Now, in my experience, the same holds true for a gin: it's the fruity bits that come over first, then the body, then the root-like, nutty flavors. So if you want to make a floral gin ... don't add root-like, nutty things to your gin recipe. And cut a bit earlier. If you want a full-bodied gin that lingers in your mouth and can be consumed neat ... do add those nutty, root-like components. And cut a bit later, since these tastes come over during the last part of the run. Okay, that was the introductionary post. More on herbs bills and aging gin and procedures in future posts! Regards, Odin.
  3. 5 likes
    I'l probably get blasted for this but... I get a never ending parade of people wanting to apprentice or work for free to "learn the craft". Basically you are asking to get for free what has taken me 25 years and a masters degree to acquire. So unless you offer some skill I happen to need or I'm short on bottling labor, I'm not super inclined to take your offer. In fact my standard response is to offer you training at $1000 per day; you pay me. Most small operations don't need any body, they need skilled bodies; we simply aren't big enough to afford the luxury in time or money. If you can't find a position in a distillery, try a brewery or winery to get a good feel for what we do. Which, by the way, is mostly cleaning. A science background is not absolutely required but it helps when problems arise. In a small operation, being able to handle any situation with creativity is key. Can you re-wire a pump or tweak a labeling machine? Mechanical aptitude often saves the day. Just having passion, or what you think is a good idea, does not make things happen; you must be able to follow through. I don't want to discourage you, but unless you bring some skill, most operations simply don't need you. End of rant.
  4. 4 likes
    Hi folks, I recently discovered that the ADI forum has a "no badmouthing" policy. This doesn't sound bad, but in practice it allows sponsors of the forum to have any content they don't like removed, even objective reviews. After recently posting a negative experience with one of the forum sponsors, my post was removed and I was threatened by the sponsor with a lawsuit. But in the meantime I was contacted by several other distillers who have had even worse experiences with this particular company. I now know there are numerous lawsuits in the works against this company, which appears to be in the business of taking deposits and providing faulty, late or no equipment to its customers. Because of ADI's forum moderation policy, there are no candid reviews of this company on the forum. Presumably if other people have shared similar experiences they have been taken down. If I had known about other people's experiences, I would not have done business with them. Since this is the primary place where distillers talk to each other, having the ability to share negative experiences is absolutely critical to the industry. I asked Bill Owens to consider changing this policy, and he has not responded, so I thought it wise to post it here. Either the ADI forum needs to change its policy to allow for open dialogue and reviews of its sponsors, or we need to open a new forum that is not censored in this way. Thanks, Joel Vikre
  5. 4 likes
    Masters in chemistry, while helpful, is far from necessary. What you really need is a process engineering consultant for about a year, a stellar marketing company, compliance officer, and CFO. Oh, and a shit-ton of money. Distilling is by far the easiest thing about running a distillery (and probably, after the first year, the most boring).
  6. 3 likes
    As bluefish says, use weight. For your calculation the only volume you should put into alcodens is 750 mL and the only temperature is 60 f (assuming you are TTB) Also, do not bother measuring the temperature of your bulk spirit. With mass that is irrelevant, and it has confused you because you have put that 73.54 f into Alcodens to calculate the 1072 bottles. 1674.8 lbs should have filled only 1066 bottles at 60 f. You have actually filled 14 more bottles than you should. What you have done is filled the bottles with 750 mL of spirit at 73.54 f instead of at 60 f. There will be less than 750 mL in the bottle which is part of the reason you ended up with extra bottles. Also, throw away that measuring cylinder. For one thing it is calibrated at 20c not 60f. (was the 80 proof you measured at 20 c? ) Parallel sided glass cylinders are not sensitive enough to read to fractions of a mL unless they are very skinny. Even so, I still can't see how your measuring cylinder was 11 mL out. Don't do your volume checks with a measuring cylinder, use weight. 750 mL of 80 proof at standard temperature (US) 60f weighs 712.34g. (in air for TTB calculations only) An easy way I use is to stack say 10 cases of empty bottles with caps on your scale. Fill them all then re-weigh. If they are cases of 6 X 750 mL then the lot should weigh 60 X 712.34 = 47.74 Kg (94.226 lbs) more than when they were empty
  7. 3 likes
    While much of what Joseph says is, and always was, true (operating capital management, marketing 101), I don't buy the bubble argument for one second. People have been saying the same thing about craft brewing for 20 years. It's still growing in volume nearly 13% year on year. Spirits are just getting started. Millennials re-wrote the markets for craft beer and wine, and they're about to do the same for spirits. They don't have the age statement bias of their parents. They're not afraid of trying new things (would you or I have ever tried a cinnamon whiskey - bleah!) They also crave experiences. So, putting capital into your location and tasting room may be FAR wiser than into name-brand copper in your stillhouse. There's also the international markets that are clamoring to experience US craft spirits. Know what an ounce of Stranahan's goes for in NL? 25€ The tired old shelf space argument never ceases to crack me up. Do you honestly mean to tell me your local liquor store had 10-12 beer coolers back in the 80s? Liquor stores are in the business of selling booze. If there's a market, THEY'LL MAKE SPACE. There's this absurdly tiny liquor store on my way home from work. Not even 500 sq ft. They are incredibly convenient though. I stopped in looking for my go-to beer (Trumer Pils) about a year ago. Of course they didn't carry it. I just mentioned to the owner that I was looking for Trumer. He said "I'll have it here next Tuesday". Now he didn't know me from Adam, but you know what? He somehow made space. Trumer Pils is always there and I pick up a six every week. 250 types of brown spirits? LOL. Have a look at the wine isle and imagine yourself in THAT market. Oh, and they're thriving. Sure, there will be some craft distillery closures. The days of "if I make it, they will come" are over. For every closure though, there will be 2+ more opening. And some of those will actually have a clue about marketing. FFS, High West just cashed out for $160M, selling whiskey they didn't even make!
  8. 2 likes
    Your 1674.8 lbs of 80 proof will give you 804.1 liters at 73.54°F. AlcoDens and the TTB Tables agree on this. But because 750 ml at 60°F grows to 754 ml at 73.54°F you should expect to get 804.1/0.754 = 1066 bottles. This agrees with PeteB’s mass based calculation. The underfill is 4 ml per bottle so you could expect to have 1066 x 4 / 750 = 5.7 extra bottles. The fact that you had 14 too many means that we still need to find where the extra 8 bottles came from. I agree that your scale is unlikely to be the source of error, but keep it in mind to check once you have eliminated all other possible reasons. If your proofing was out and the 1674.8 lbs actually gave you 810.0 liters ( = 1080 x 0.750) instead of the calculated 804.1 then your density at 73.54°F was 7.8262 lb/WG and this would correspond to a proof of 88.2. It is unlikely that you could be this far out. Another possibility for error would be if your bottling temperature was not the 73.54°F in your storage tank. But the temperature would need to be in the region of 90°F to explain the difference. This should be easy to check. As PeteB has said, it would be better to do your quantity checks during the run based on mass rather than volume. If you have an accurate lab scale you could also use it to calibrate your measuring cylinder. Use AlcoDens to calculate the expected weight of 0 proof (i.e. water) when your cylinder is full, and fill it with RO or well filtered water. If you have a bottling machine that uses a fixed head (pressure) and adjustable timer to control the fill quantity then you can set it to give a target weight rather than volume. The weight filled will vary with the temperature of the spirit and if you make a note of the time required and the temperature each time you adjust it you will soon be able to draw up a calibration curve to speed up the job.
  9. 2 likes
    Sadly, I shall never regain the 15 minutes of my life I just wasted reading this thread. Best of luck. Over and out.
  10. 2 likes
    What he said ^^^^ She was just being defensive. There are a lot of people interested in being a distiller so she probably hears that a lot. I will say that my personal experience is that you get about 50/50 with people being friendly about it and not. Luckily @Huffy2k is local to me and has been really open and friendly. I have stopped out at his place a couple times and he's always been welcoming. Other people in the area weren't as much. Do you need a master's degree in Chemistry? No. I know several distillers that make money that don't have the slightest clue as to chemistry. They pick a mash bill and repeat it. If they encounter a problem they dump whatever it is they are working on and start again. If you have a good bio/chem background you can adjust and probably save whatever it is you're working on and save money. It also helps with the repeatably of the process / consistency of the product. Distilling is a limited though complicated subject. Any reasonably intelligent person can pick up a couple books and learn. That knowledge is what allows distillers to make nuanced changes to make a flavor different, or to know when a step can be ignored to save money, or increase efficiency.
  11. 2 likes
    We "rest" our Gin for 20 days before bottling as many of the flavor characteristics come off at different boiling points. They need time to marry up and the best way is to vat everything and proof a little high. All the flavors will reach their peak after about 20 days and then you can take it to your final bottling proof and put it in the bottle. With Vodka you shouldn't have to follow this procedure. There shouldn't be any flavors to marry, so you should be good to go as soon as you proof and filter. We still take two or more days to do this as we creep up in the final proof to make sure we get it right.
  12. 2 likes
    Most books on distilled spirits are worthless, except for the technical references, which tend to be heavily theoretical textbook or journal articles. Some of the best stuff has bubbled up from the hobby community. Crozdog's gin manual is a good start if you are interested in vapor distilling - https://www.stilldragon.org/uploads/manuals/StillDragon.The.Gin.Basket.Operation.Manual.v1.1.20140116.pdf Odin's post and video from the other day was very good as well. I'd wager a guess that both of these are better technical guides than any published book. Although I really do like The Drunken Botanist by Amy Stewart (this is a lay book).
  13. 1 like
    Racked my brain the other day about how I could have possibly overfilled by 17ml, or had such a significant proofing error (on a smaller bottling run). Checked bottle weights - spot on. Dumped bottles to check proof, spot on. Nothing wrong. Counted the cases over and over, checked the bottles. Checked the hydrometer. Nothing wrong. Turned out a full case ended up stacked on a pallet of empties, and the total count was 6 bottles short. Racked my brains for a day until my brother comes over and asks why a full case was sitting on top of a pallet of empties. Hallelujah, all of the sudden the math works, all is right in the world. Any chance you over counted by 1 case, or a case of empties made it over to the full pallet side? Just throwing it out there. Everything PeteB and Meerkat say still applies. Dump the graduated cylinder - get a small scale with reasonable accuracy to check bottle fill. I have a small 5kg scale with good sub-gram accuracy.
  14. 1 like
    I should add that it is possible to have a policy that allows direct and honest comments and reviews but doesn't allow disrespectful, hateful or slanderous speech. It just requires the moderators to exercise some judgement, and the members to help ensure positive honest and respectful tone.
  15. 1 like
    Use weight for your bottle fill instead of volume. Weight doesn't change, but volume does with temperature.
  16. 1 like
  17. 1 like
    With a 50-100 gal still, labor cost is likely a much more significant factor than mashing efficiency or distillation yields. If you are doing it yourself (and probably not taking a paycheck or salary), make sure to factor the theoretical labor cost into the product or you will paint yourself into a corner of never getting to pay your self (or someone else).
  18. 1 like
    Fully loaded, not just grain price - yeast, enzyme, energy, etc. At least enough loading to compare to buying neutral. Closer to $6-7 out here in Jersey, but that's milled and bagged.
  19. 1 like
    We sincerely appreciate any reasonable feedback from our customers or friends,since they help us improve better. We welcome any potential customers or friends to visit us and know us in person. Thanks. Penny Email: daey010@dayuwz.com
  20. 1 like
    If you are new to the world of fittings, it can be helpful to go to a Brick and mortar store like Davidson Winery Supply in McMinnville to get oriented on what is out there and what it's called.
  21. 1 like
    As @JustAndy said.. Bobby_M at brewhardware.com has tons of fittings. I've also used http://brewershardware.com for larger TC fittings that don't apply to your problem.
  22. 1 like
    http://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15hb34.htm
  23. 1 like
    I wasn't replying in hopes for a lecture about safety. Just pointing out that the distillery you mentioned didn't blow up due to an ignition source. The still itself blew up from over pressurization due to a couple terrible design flaws, and possibly operator error as well. I think ignition with that magnitude of an accident is basically inevitable. You can't say "this is what happens if you have an open ignition" and then cite an accident which was not caused by open ignition.
  24. 1 like
    @Silk City Distillers that's a great link for small steam boilers. With respect to a tiny budget, the steam generator (think sauna heating) is very cheap. Unfortunately there's a world of difference in operation, safety and compliance requirements between the two. The boiler can run all day, needs to be installed by a certified individual, is a registered pressure vessel therefore costs more. The steam generator typically has a cut-off timer, for example it can only run for 60minutes continuously before it shuts down. Has a lower operating pressure, is not a registered pressure vessel. And an 18kW can be had for as little as $AU900 plus delivery and taxes. @kansftbmy real concern with your post is your bootstrapping budget, it can be done but a reality check is needed. Hoga have no idea about the requirements for hazardous area compliance in your region, that's your job. As such, I suspect hazardous area compliance will blow your budget before you get started. With that in mind, start your talks with your local Fire Marshall and regulatory authorities before committing any funds. You may find the exercise to be far more expensive than you ever anticipated. Cheers, Mech.
  25. 1 like
    man that code stuff sucks. it is a biz killer
  26. 1 like
    Can you provide more details on your whiskey still. We experienced that in reverse -- made gin in our column still and had a tinge of flavor carryover into a neutral spirit. After our standard CIP protocol we backflushed with PBW followed Acid #5 (both from Five Star) through the parrot triclamp connection through the lyne arm, etc. That did the trick. So the answer is yes, you can do it, but it's a bit of a balls ache.
  27. 1 like
    After serving for twenty-four years, I retired from my firefighting career, then spent the next five as a fire apparatus repair technician. I joined the Black Button bottling crew in February of 2016. Later that same year, I transitioned to the production side of the operation. Now, as the Assistant Production Distiller, I’m committed to assuring that everyone has an opportunity to “Live Large in Small Batches.” When not in the midst of helping create Rochester, New York's finest, grain to glass craft spirits, you might see me riding my classic Harley Davidson motorcycle, unless you look quickly, you’ll miss it!
  28. 1 like
    Welcome! Our distillery is in Washington PA, feel free to drop by and say hello sometime. Regarding malt, check out Breiss and Great Western Malting.
  29. 1 like
    An observation, where do you get 99% alcohol from? 95.6% is as high as can be distilled at atmospheric pressure. I would have thought at 99% there would be no free water and no rusting. Many big industrial continuous stills are built from steel and I assume they don't rust. You should be able to carbon filter the rust from your "ruined product", but I am no expert on carbon filtering.
  30. 1 like
    Even though I have never met you I say your answer "NO" to your own question is incorrect. Your masters degrees may not have given you any direct knowledge of running a distillery but I would be certain that your brain was taught to think and problem solve, that is obvious from your contributions to this forum.
  31. 1 like
  32. 1 like
    My swipe was directed at everyone, a general statement on the fact that what we believe is a differentiated brand story is actually some kind of prerequisite industry conformity. Even the commercial spirits business sees this, and brands are embracing insulting their own brand stories. Dos Equis "Most Interesting Man in the World" for example, or John Jameson jumping into rough seas to rescue a barrel that had gone overboard. If it's all nonsense anyway, then just take the nonsense to the next level, and it becomes more interesting than reality. Take it as you will, but it was a response to @MDH.
  33. 1 like
    http://www.katmarsoftware.com/alcodens.htm
  34. 1 like
    I calibrate 1 bottle by weight. Then to get a very accurate average fill as required I put about 6 cases of empty bottles plus caps on my sales. Note the tare and start filling. At the end of each filled case I check the calculated weight against the actual. If numbers are close then keep filling and checking until 6 cases filled. Can easily get to within a fraction of a gram per bottle. I use Enolmatic vacuum filler.
  35. 1 like
    OSHA 29 CFR 1910.178(c)(2)(v) requires an approved DS, ES, GS, or LPS an approved power operated industrial truck. Opening the door to increase ventilation is not sufficient. $3,500 dollar fine proves the point.
  36. 1 like
    No need to be a mad scientist, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. Having at least a basic understanding of chemistry, biology and physics goes a long way in the industry because without that understanding, you're going to be doing a lot of guess work and trial and error. Can't tell you how many times I've gotten a call from a distiller that goes something like this... New distiller : "Hey, I'm having trouble with my conversion" Me: "OK let me see. What percent efficiency are you getting?" ND: "I'm not sure?" Me: "Ok, well how many pounds of grain to water?" ND: "Well I just chuck it in until it gets thick and then add enzymes" Me: "OK, what's your pH range for XYZ enzyme you're using?" ND: "I don't know man" Me: "What's the pH of your mash when you add them?" ND: "I don't know, I don't have a pH meter" Me: "What's the temperature range of your enzymes? What's the temperature of the mash when you add it?" ND: "I don't know, it's real steamy though!" That's the basic science 101 of our industry, and I'm really surprised how few people have any understanding of it. I'm not a scientist, I'm just a hack/nerd who's taken a few college courses and has a basic understanding.
  37. 1 like
    I have seen an increasing amount of fairly basic jobs, such as small-sized vineyard management, asking for specialized degrees. I would hope these positions offer flexibility to their applicants in this regard. Credentialism is a serious and real issue that is costing an entire generation much more money and time than it did to their parents and grandparents. I would not trust a highschool graduate to be my heart surgeon, but I'd certainly trust one who showed incentive and interest in learning to distill a spirit.
  38. 1 like
    Is the vent pipe mounted to the back of the new combustion chamber? If so Ned is quite right. 1)Your heating surface has been reduced 2) Much of the heat is rushing up the vent pipe 3) All of the surface of the still that is not inside the burner chamber is radiating heat, cooling it down, without the bricks you have more heat loss surface. 5) remove the burner chamber and put back with bricks as original but without the copper plate. The air gap between the plate and the still was a good (bad) insulator 4) Heat up as fast as you can without scorching, less time heating equals less time for heat loss from rest of still surface. 6) Check the burner specs, I think it should be much closer to the base of the still. 6) does that regulator have the correct flow rate for that burner? it may be undersized.
  39. 1 like
    Someone recently described it as looking like the filler Darth Vader would use. Not sure if that's a downside?
  40. 1 like
    I agree. I love to read constructive criticism. It should be personal experience, not hearsay and specific. Either design, materials, craftsmanship or service in nature.
  41. 1 like
    Exact same design as Kothe stills http://www.kothe-distilling.com/newsite/stills/vodka
  42. 1 like
    Thanks for sharing, it took a lot of guts to try to do it - and to write that.
  43. 1 like
    The sad thing about the Re-bubblers is the joe public does not know and 99% of people don't care. So If people don't know or don't care then why go through all of the steps? Think how much money is saved / made. You can't hate someone because they have a different business plan than yours. If they are doing it legal then they are not really cheating. Who wouldn't what .22c for a bottle of vodka when all you have to do is make a phone call and it just shows up.
  44. 1 like
    I was reading the Artisan Spirit magazine the other day and the article written by Wilderness Trail Distillery on cranking out the maximum number of barrels on your equipment got me thinking about their mashing technique. Is there a reason to add smaller grains (rye, wheat) after gelatinizing the corn, instead of adding it at the same time. The whole article is on minimizing the cook time and overall efficiency, and I don't know what the downside of adding rye and wheat at the same temperature step as the corn would be...thoughts? Some off flavor I don't know about? I have done a few mashes with the corn and wheat/rye added at the same time and brought to 190; I have never really seen any problem with this but perhaps if I dropped temp to 170 to add rye/wheat the flavor would change.
  45. 1 like
    Hey Everyone! Wanted to share with you all Black Water Barrels Production Process!! Check it out and see some behind the scenes footage of what goes into creating a Black Water Barrels. #BWBSC Cheers!!
  46. 1 like
    Hey Mott- We're just starting up...and with a fresh perspective I can say you've asked a bunch of questions only you guys can answer. Simply going down the path and preparing to risk the capital can really help you focus on what you want to do. You'll hear a whole spectrum of advice - start small, start big, only do this or do that! Write a business plan on your top spirit that YOU want to make, and let it go from there. It will help you see what it really costs and how much time it will take before you see a return. If I were in a nice agricultural area, I'd see if I could find a good location with lots of tourist traffic. Check zoning, building codes, fire regulations, local acceptance among stakeholders, etc first. If you can endure that set of special headaches and still want to do it....that's a good test. Visit every distillery you can in a multi state area and talk to them about how they did it. Good luck!
  47. 1 like
    You can have a Distillery and Restaurant in Oregon. Oregon Spirit Distillers and the Barrel Thief Lounge, Bend Oregon. Cheers all!
  48. 1 like
    Are you kidding? Even ASD is made in China! Duh..... So much equipment pours out of a certain region in China that is set up for manufacturing this stuff. China takes all kinds of designs from all over. Chinese companies will make the Products as thick or as thin you want. It is not there fault. The factory were ASD has in China that builds all of there equipment also builds product for other people on the side with out telling ASD. Not a good move on ASD side for paying for a stand alone factory where it is not monitored very well.
  49. 1 like
    I know other PA distilleries that have done exactly that, but it seems its a gray area. I just called and spoke with the PLCB asking if we can deliver or if we can apply for a licensed Transporter for Hire in order to deliver. The lady I spoke with read from the sheet she has that lists the "rights" of a limited distillery holder, and her sheet specifically states that we are allowed to "remove and deliver" product. She did not think I would need to apply for a licensed Transporter for Hire, but had no specific ruling or code section to back that up and suggested I submit for a legal advisory before trying to apply for the licensed Transporter for Hire..
  50. 1 like
    My feeling is if you have the money and tools to test the water sooner or later your going to find fish (hehe) I crack myself up. I can see pros and cons to both sides of the coin. My feeling is small batch whiskey is more collector friendly. I also understand that volume helps consumers adjust to your new products. The last thing any small distillery needs is empty shelf space. I think this is a balancing act. if your in the camp that wants to build one thing (GOOD) just remember that innovation is the mother of all new business If your in the camp that wants to build lots of new spirits (GOOD) just remember that brand recognition is the mother of your bottom line.