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Showing content with the highest reputation since 07/17/2017 in all areas

  1. 7 points
    Slippery slope. More information than anyone probably wants or cares about. I like weighing and can't fathom doing anything other by weight. Spirits by volume? You are wasting your time and are highly inaccurate. The scale probably doesn't need to be NTEP, but it should be. Non-NTEP scales generally can't be calibrated, and the TTB wants your measuring equipment calibrated. Given this is used for tax determination, it could be arguable that this is a value exchange and NTEP should apply. Dunbar probably has a good handle on this. NTEP scales are typically higher quality than non-NTEP scales. It doesn't mean a non-NTEP scale isn't good, it can be better than an NTEP scale, but generally, NTEP is there for a reason. Generally you don't make a junk NTEP scale, but lots of people make junk non-NTEP scales. Non-NTEP scales are typically sold based on readability - the display accuracy, the number of digits on the scale display. However, you need to realize that showing more numbers on the display doesn't mean the scale is accurate to the digit of the display. This is a massive misconception. Just because the display shows it, don't mean it's so. You could make a 1000 pound scale with a display that reads 999.99 - but it doesn't mean that the scale is accurate to 0.01 pounds. In fact, you have no idea at all if the scale is accurate to that level, because there are no rules to mandate that it is. The numbers after the decimal point could be complete nonsense. You think it's highly accurate because it shows more numbers, but that ain't the case. That's where NTEP comes in. Among other things, NTEP defines the number of "DIVISIONS" that the scale is capable of accurately resolving. Legal for Trade means that the the display accuracy is equal to the accuracy that is defined by the division in one of these classes. NTEP also means that the scale is independently verified to read accurately across a range of voltages, temperatures, and other operating conditions. NTEP CLASS I - 100,000 Divisions and UP (Precision Laboratory Use) NTEP CLASS II - 10,000 to 100,000 Divisions (Lab Use, Precious Metals, etc) NTEP CLASS III - 1,000 to 10,000 Divisions (Commercial legal for trade) Accuracy/Readability = Maximum weight / Divisions So, you can have an NTEP Class 3 scale, 1,000 pounds, with 1,000 divisions. The display should read 0000 (1000/1000 = 1). Nothing after the decimal point. You would assume it is accurate to the pound only. You can also have an NTEP Class 3 scale, 1,000 pounds, with 10,000 divisions. The display should read 0000.0, and the scale will increment in .1 pound steps. 0000.1, 0000.2, 0000.3. You would assume that it is accurate to a tenth of a pound. So what's the difference? The 10,000 division NTEP scale is going to be more expensive than the 1,000 division NTEP scale. What makes scales more expensive than others? Not the total weight capacity, no no no. It's the divisions. The more divisions a scale can accurately measure, the more complex the circuity, the higher tech the load cells, the tighter the manufacturing tolerances, the more substantial the frame needs to be, and the more expensive the scale. That all said, the scale used for a specific operation needs to be suitable for that operation. Lets say you are proofing 50 pounds of 120proof spirit to 80 proof for bottling, that's going to be 28.154 pounds of water for a total final blend volume of 78.154 pounds. If you have a 5000 pound NTEP pallet scale with a 1 pound accuracy, your display weight of 78 pounds is everything from 77.5 pounds to 78.4 pounds. So you add water until your display reads 78 pounds. In proof terms, it means you are anywhere from 79.7 proof to 80.4 proof, you'll have no idea unless you gauge again. If you read 80.4 - you'll need to slowly keep adding water and gauging, over and over, in little steps. A waste of time. If you read 79.7 proof. Sorry to hear it, hope you have more spirit on hand to raise the proof, which you'll need to do slowly, re-mixing and gauging every time. Now, if you had a 150 pound scale with an accuracy of 0.05lb (NTEP Class III - 3000 Divisions, actually LESS ACCURATE THAN THE 5000lb Scale). You would add water to 78.15 pounds. If proof terms, you are going to be better than 79.95 to 80.05. Do you gauge again? Of course you do. But you'll be dead on, no fiddling around with trying to add an unmeasurable amount of water or spirit (proofing by trial and error). I just hope someone bothers to get this far and at least got some bit of useless trivia knowledge out of this. That said, EVERYTHING BY WEIGHT, NO OTHER WEIGH ... err WAY.
  2. 3 points
    Can you tell I like scales yet? Every distillery should have 3 scales. Yes, get out your pocket book, you should have 3 scales: Scale #1 - Sized for the maximum amount of spirit you deal with in Production. Scale #2 - Sized for the maximum amount of spirit you produce in Processing. Scale #3 - Sized to check weight a filled bottle for verifying filling accuracy in Bottling. If you deal with similar weights on a day to day basis in Production and Processing, than the same scale would suffice. But if you are working with totes of GNS in Processing (needing a max capacity of at least 2000lb), and producing 50 pounds of distillate at a time out of your still, you probably want two different scales. What is a good accuracy when dealing with a tote is not a good accuracy when trying to proof 50 pounds of distillate. If you deal with small volumes in production and processing (under 10 wine gallons), keep in mind 19.186 above, this will all but GUARANTEE you need three scales, since you will not find a high capacity scale with enough divisions to accurate read to the hundredth place. Generally, this kind of scale is going to be under 100 pounds maximum capacity. The third scale is for checking your bottle fill accuracy, and it is going to need to be accurate to the gram. We use a 2kg x 1g scale which works perfectly for us (750ml is our largest bottle, and the glass is a little bit over 900 grams), but you are going to need to know your bottle glass weight and volume to determine if 2kg is sufficient or not. You weigh a bottle, tare it, fill it, then check against the table. Allowable fill variation is pretty wide, so 1g accuracy is enough. You can find inexpensive high quality scales for this, and it is significantly easier than attempting to verify bottle fill volumetrically. You can find my bottle verification check weight chart here for 375 and 750ml:
  3. 2 points
    Bloom is caused by repetitive condensation formation and evaporation on the inside of the bottles. Generally this happens on a daily basis when the climate is cold at night and warm during the day and there is moisture in the air. It usually takes 3-6 months of this happening before the white crystallization becomes apparent. If bottles must be stored for longer than 3-6 months, then they should always be stored in a temperature or humidity controlled warehouse. Generally either temperature or humidity control will work. Both are not necessary.
  4. 2 points
    Well fellas, I figured out the problem and wanted to run a batch successfully before posting on here. After checking everything suggested... I rechecked my enzymes and have apparently been using beta-glucanase as my beta-amylase since the last order (when the problem started). I usually order a high-temp alpha, beta, and beta glucanase. I apparently ordered 2 beta glucanase containers and never second guessed it. I put them in the usual places in the cooler and have been grabbing them like usual, not looking at the actual containers. I was even placing the beta glucanase in the cup labeled betaamylase...a small oversight, but an incredibly frustrating and expense learning lesson. I'm glad that the problem is easily solved...but incredibly disappointed in my oversight. I've successfully fermented 2 batches since realizing the issue, all ferment fully and taste great. I appreciate everyone's suggestions and help along the way. Best.
  5. 2 points
    And that folks, is why you buy Alcodens.
  6. 2 points
    Recommend going back to the still. With the vodka, run it again, this is easy, all 24 plates. If the intention for your rum is white, you can redistill as well, but only run through your short column (4). In both cases, your focus is going to be on the tail cut. This is entirely based on your comment of visible clouding, which you should not be seeing. This is making me think that carbon will *not* be efficient here, as you'll quickly overwhelm the adsorption capacity, and waste a lot of carbon to get where you are wanting to go. Chill filtration, there's not a whole lot out there for the craft market, most I've seen have cobbled together their own systems out of jacket tanks, freezer chests, plate and frame filters, etc. As far as something turnkey you can just ring up and order? I've never seen one. I'd love to see something work with a smaller 10" Code-7 style filter housing, as opposed to trying to run a smaller volume of spirit through a gigantic plate and frame, losing 25% of my spirit volume in the process.
  7. 2 points
    Very interesting find here. Some good points and I would have to agree with the side that says there is plenty of room for growth. The way I see it, is this is a changing industry as growth continues. No offense, but if you are sing an end near, then you have already given up. I get it, people are afraid of change, but change is constant and an opportunity to do things different with added knowledge. Time for people to embrace change and evolve with the business. The same thing happened in the craft beer segment and that is exactly why I am here. Rather than opening another brewery and trying to adapt with the saturation I saw a chance to get into and industry that is years behind craft beer. Most distilleries before me have focused on the mass production and distribution model. I have decided to follow the craft beer model (as mentioned before) and go with a tasting room forward and innovative model. Were are slated to open by the end of the year and have a 2500 sqft tasting room with another 3000sqft outdoor "drink garden". Our production will be based on laughter with clean/closed fermentation and 1 stripping still and 2 spirits stills, one for botanical and one for flavor positive starches. We will produce about 30 different labels a year, some seasonal and one-offs. All small bath on a 10bbl brewhouse yielding about 60 gallons per batch. Intentions are to sell as much in-house and whatever is left over to liquor stores. Rather than trying to flood all liquor stores we will have a product that will only be on certain liquor store shelf's who are brand loyal ensuring that our product has proper pull-through. One comment I found interesting was the 1000g for beer at $8 a glass. In my area its more like $7 a glass, but non the less that is about $56,000 on a 1000g batch. On the same 1000g system with a 10% yield you get $170 $68,000 assuming you sell a 1.5 oz shot for $8. Now get your yields up to 20% and sell your drink for $10 (comps in my area) you get $170k. Sounds pretty good, right. I might be a little ambitious, but I've been in the beer industry long enough to know that if you work hard and produce a quality product for a local market building a loyal brand all while being innovative, then you will be successful. I am not afraid one bit at all and I am excited to be a part of the upswing of a budding industry.
  8. 2 points
    None of the above. Silk is right, testing before permitting is a felony. Assuming you know that, I'd take a serious look at this: https://www.distillery-equipment.com/45 gallon Still.htm Jacketted, modular, and can add an agitator...
  9. 2 points
    While much of what Joseph says is, and always was, true (operating capital management, marketing 101), I don't buy the bubble argument for one second. People have been saying the same thing about craft brewing for 20 years. It's still growing in volume nearly 13% year on year. Spirits are just getting started. Millennials re-wrote the markets for craft beer and wine, and they're about to do the same for spirits. They don't have the age statement bias of their parents. They're not afraid of trying new things (would you or I have ever tried a cinnamon whiskey - bleah!) They also crave experiences. So, putting capital into your location and tasting room may be FAR wiser than into name-brand copper in your stillhouse. There's also the international markets that are clamoring to experience US craft spirits. Know what an ounce of Stranahan's goes for in NL? 25€ The tired old shelf space argument never ceases to crack me up. Do you honestly mean to tell me your local liquor store had 10-12 beer coolers back in the 80s? Liquor stores are in the business of selling booze. If there's a market, THEY'LL MAKE SPACE. There's this absurdly tiny liquor store on my way home from work. Not even 500 sq ft. They are incredibly convenient though. I stopped in looking for my go-to beer (Trumer Pils) about a year ago. Of course they didn't carry it. I just mentioned to the owner that I was looking for Trumer. He said "I'll have it here next Tuesday". Now he didn't know me from Adam, but you know what? He somehow made space. Trumer Pils is always there and I pick up a six every week. 250 types of brown spirits? LOL. Have a look at the wine isle and imagine yourself in THAT market. Oh, and they're thriving. Sure, there will be some craft distillery closures. The days of "if I make it, they will come" are over. For every closure though, there will be 2+ more opening. And some of those will actually have a clue about marketing. FFS, High West just cashed out for $160M, selling whiskey they didn't even make!
  10. 2 points
    You know what, all of you have over stepped the line. I would never call someone else a "scammer" or "scam". I am a very much real person, and very much upset. I know I post all over the place on ADI, deal with it, and stop crying. But you know what it is the the best way in the world to get my name out there, and it is free as compared to other advertising that I do. I know it is annoying but I bet everyone has heard of me and that is what I'm going for. I am in the line of work to never shut my still down, keeping the still on is how we all make our money, isn't it? I think ADI is a great place to meet and help out people all the time. I have made several stills for people I have met via ADI forums. Not to mention all the hours I have spent on the phone using my own time helping people out with there problems. For those I have helped out you know how I help. Let me give you some facts. 2 years ago in Iowa my Distillery "Dehner Distillery llc" was 2nd from the last in production and sales. Only selling about 200 cases (9L each) a year. Now because I added more products, and do contract distilling, private labeling and other distilling stuff, I will be #1 in Iowa by the end of the year, if I am not all ready! I am moving to a building that is about 10 times bigger than the one I am in currently. NOW, in a month alone I make a little over 1700 proof gallons of rum (and it is getting ready to just about double), 1060 proof gallons of vodka, and about 650 proof gallons of 151p. To be honest I probably make more rum than anyone in a 1000 miles radius of me. I send product all over the United States. All of you that posted about me being a scam should apologize. If not so be it. Anyone have any problems call anytime! 515-559-4879 Take Care: Joseph Dehner
  11. 2 points
    I assume you are referring to general distillery trade waste, not from the sinks and bathrooms. We operate in a rural area also and initially we had to truck all our trade waste off for external disposal, at great cost. We now treat the waste on-site. No septic, or air assisted bio-cycle system will cope with distillery trade waste for three reasons; The pH is way too low THE BOD is too high (typical of boiled waste) The amount of residual alcohol is often too high in 'small' distilleries (we often dump our stillage at 2% residual alcohol, as its too expensive to strip-out the remainder) We established an on-site treatment system FOR THE TRADE WASTE ONLY (all sink and bathroom effluent is treated in a standard AWT septic system) comprising of three 10kl concrete tanks. The waste is transfered on a batch basis from one to the other, and then finally sprayed out onto rural pastures. The tanks work as follows; Tank 1 takes the raw waste, and holds until we have about 10kl, we then pH adjust to 7.2 with Calcium Carbonate. Residual chlorine is resolved with H2O2. BOD is measured, as well as copper, lead and N2 levels (local EPA requirement). Calcium Carbonate dissolves very slowly so we need to recirculate this tank for about 24 hours Tank 2 has a pump over aeration system that fixes the BOD and dissolved O2 levels, this again takes about 24 hours of circulation. Bentonite is added in the last hour of aeration just before transfer to tank 3. Tank 3 is the settling tank, we settle the sludge for 24 hours, the clear water is then fed by pump to an open field for irrigation. The sludge is drained monthly, and dumped onto open compost mounds. This system has been working flawlessly for 2 years and has proved very cheap to operate.
  12. 1 point
    It's very simple. You need to use the same spirit that is approved on the label. If you add a little whiskey to rum, it's not rum anymore. If you add rum to whiskey, it's not whiskey anymore. If you add high proof vodka to straight whiskey, it's not straight whiskey anymore.
  13. 1 point
    distillers seeking investors in the US will want to pay attention to SEC rules and EDGAR - one link here below for exemptions on Form D to allow various types of investors. In some cases, you disclose financials, in other cases not. as with most government rules, there are penalties for non-compliance, and yes, even if making mistakes and not being informed. https://www.sec.gov/info/smallbus/cfformd.htm As the B-school joke goes, your smallest investors will take the largest amount of your time. experienced and accredited investors know the rules and will leave you alone. Best is finding accredited investors with industry knowledge and management advisory input to help. Keeping them all informed is helpful in any case, and they'll be your advocates about "their distillery." On the British Columbia side, permits are now 4-6 months waiting time. No new "liquor primary" licenses (in case anyone wanted to think about just selling craft spirits, and not being a mfg) until 2022. The craft advantage of exemption from provincial excise tax is a superior opportunity; disadvantage is that it tapers off as you production increases. And not making rum, that's a downside too - fewer pirate themed products :-) If your BC firm is properly configured to attract investors, they can benefit from significant tax deduction in the year they make the investment. That does not exist in the USA. What does exist for US investors is on the backside of an investment, and US-based distillers seeking investors might want to read up on 1244 stock status in case there is a need. (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/section-1244-stock.asp). In all cases, YMMV, and none of the above is advice or necessarily complete, just observations obtained in our process. Defer to the reader which parts are relevant for your experience and needs. Cheers!
  14. 1 point
    We only use ro water for cutting. us water systems.
  15. 1 point
    A few things, I'm not sure where you are located, but do you need to send your plans to the city/county/state for approval? If so you do not look ADA compliant in particular with regards to your bathrooms, also it seems like a lot of toilets/urinals for the space. Secondly, most state health inspectors are going to require a 3-bay sink, not just a two bay. Fire code wise, your electrical panel probably doesn't have proper access. You also probably don't have enough space set aside for mechanical. Two fermentors to feed two stills doesn't seem to be a good match. With 20 foot ceilings, I would try to use space over the retail room for storage, and perhaps an office. TTB will most likely want a separate door to your production space, not to mention just for fire escapes.
  16. 1 point
    we buy honey from a local colony ,huterite colony not bee colony lol its 2 bucks a pound filtered twice after extraction if u add one tbl spoon of water to every gallon of warmed honey and then whip it it will filter much easier but will not keep like raw honey .
  17. 1 point
    We built a stand for one of the boxes shown in the link: http://www.bulkcontainerexpress.com/p/BH574565-HB.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwnubLBRC_ARIsAASsNNmaBQof6bn8QtG51BJG9y2wWPZHL4jsZ79LpTpXVj2e_Cw7d2UqjkEaArw4EALw_wcB We just set the box on the stand above the mill and use the slide that's built into the box for controlling the grain flow. We do 2k lb per batch this way and it works like a charm.
  18. 1 point
    Another bump for Dave. He handled our first DSP and will handle our move when we need that done. As far as the state. It all depends. Some let you do stuff ahead of time some don't. Whatever they say goes.
  19. 1 point
    Yes, we make custom molds for $10K with MOQ's of 5,000. No strings attached. Mexico is covered by NAFTA, so there are no duties to worry about, just freight. We currently have multiple projects in Hawaii. I bet I even have some freight estimates I can find. At 5,000 run quantities we are in the mid $2 range depending upon design. Do you label during fill, or should we also look at artwork and quote decoration? Once we have the design and can create a packaging specification, then pallet configuration, we can figure out how to optimize the container. A 750ml in a 12 pack reshipper would be about 15,000 in a full 40 foot shipping container, so 5,000 means we might want to look at a 20 foot container rate, plus upping the order size a bit to max out the 20 foot. Very close to our factory is also the Stopper supplier, TAPI. Maybe we can consolidate with them to save costs too. I am sure they can bring their corks to us before we seal the container. I am a firm believer in sealed containers door to door. When is a good time to speak? Brooke 860-350-5485
  20. 1 point
    If you are interested in gin, you may enjoy this thread: As for gin making and using gns, a simple potstill is just awesome. Regards, Odin.
  21. 1 point
    Jeff, Under a given set of conditions, there is an optimum cooking temperature and time to obtain the best quality of distillate and the best alcohol yield. I believe the question you have is about cooking small grains at high temperatures. There are a lot of ways to prepare grains for fermentation, but the simple goal of cooking is to gelatinize the starch granules, to make them available for hydrolysis by enzymes to convert to fermentable sugars but the complicated goal is to efficiently obtain proper gelatinization of starch, properly free up amino acids the yeast require, convert to fermentable sugars, reduce contamination and obtain a flavor extraction from the grains. The infusion mashing process we use, (simply cooking small grains at lower & proper temperatures), here at Wilderness Trail is designed around maximizing flavor first, energy second and time third. You do not have to boil your grains up to 210F and you certainly do not want to cook any of your small grains (wheat, rye, barley, malted barley, etc) in that range, again you can but it will not be the highest quality distillate you can obtain in the end if you do that. You can cook corn to 210F and it doesn't do much more than waste energy cooking it that high, part of the high heat is to sterilize the grains of bacteria and you take care of that around 190F and you only need to cook corn around 190F-185F for proper gelatinization, we cook our corn at 190F, it saves energy from going higher, we convert all of the available sugars and sterilize our grains, that is why you do it. For wheat the actual gelatinization range is 136F-146F but we start adding our wheat around 155-160F. For Rye the actual range is 135F-158F and we add and cook our Rye no higher than 160F for good reasons. Our Malted barley never goes in higher than 145F to preserve the enzymatic activity and to keep the grains intact. Think of it this way, gelatinization is like popping popcorn under water, its a dramatic change in the grains composition.. and throw in some smaller ductile grains like wheat or rye and you blow them apart under the same conditions as well as a lot of protein you don't want to break down. The reasons you do not cook grains beyond their proper gelatinization range is more about flavor than yield because if it is too rigorous, thermal decomposition of grain components will cause objectionable popcorn phenolic odors, yield is more impacted by poor grains, under cooking, poor conversion and yeast conditions. By using the infusion mashing process for small grains, you keep the branched chain amino acids and proteins in place with the grains that the yeast will use to properly make a flavorful result. If you boil your small grains, you are creating unbranched chain amino acids, degrading proteins and frankly blowing apart the flavor you are trying to extract. Small grains also get scorched very easy and there are Maillard effects that create all kinds of new chemicals from the high heat of small grains you don't want, plus why would you, the process doesn't require it. The yeast take these unbranched chain and Maillard effect's and turns them into higher alcohols (fusels) and other chemicals that alter the flavor and result of the beer & distillate. In short summary for our whiskeys, we cook our corn to 190F and hold that for 40 minutes, we cool to 160F by adding some water additions of the overall mashbill and add our wheat or Rye and hold that for 30 minutes, we add more water additions to get to 145F which is when we add our Malted Barley which rest for 30 minutes. We add the rest of our water additions for our ferm set and the chiller takes it down to 90F. We send that to our fermenters, which are set to hold at 85F for three day beer and 78F for 4-5 day beer. By shortening the initial cook of the total water, your initial cook is thicker, for us that is around 18 beer gallons and that allows you to use less energy to heat up the initial cook and reserve the rest of the water for cooling capacity as well as when you add your grains you are also using that to help cool your mash down. For example I mentioned we add our wheat at 160F but after the grains are added the temperature drops to around 150F+ and rest out to a little above 145F. We primarily make a wheated Bourbon but we also make a Rye Whiskey, which again even though the Rye will be the majority of grains, we still cook our smaller amount of Corn up to 190F and then cool it down to 160F before adding the majority of the mashbill of Rye. Infusion mashing is scientifically proven to offer a more flavorful distillate and smoother distillate, mainly for the reasons listed above. Shane Baker Co-Founder, Master Distiller Wilderness Trail Distillery
  22. 1 point
    I dont think there's anyone better than Martin Brungard. See section 4 of this: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge Does it make much of a difference?? I honestly don't know. I started this practice over a decade ago when brewing beer and have just kept it going. It's so inexpensive and it certainly can't hurt.
  23. 1 point
    If I go lower in pH, it is because I want to create a little bit more taste. Lower pH enhances the formation of taste molecules (Esterification). So I do it on rum and whiskey, but not on vodka recipes. When I make (or help develop) taste rich products, like rum or whiskey, I use (or advice to use) backset. It is sour and will sour up mashing and fermentation, enhancing esterification. Since you now add backset, instead of water, to the next mash/ferment/distillation cycle, you also increase taste, you don't need (so much) yeast nutrients, and it helps you stabilize on taste output (repeatability). In general, I aim for a much lower pH, especially while fermenting (where most taste is formed). It does not only help create more taste (and a more interesting whiskey or rum), it also helps against bacterial infections, when pH is below pH 4.8. Low pH is good against all bacterial infections ... safe lactic bacteria infection, unfortunately. I usually aim for a starting pH, while fermenting, of pH 4.8 and will see it go down to pH 3.8, depending on wash type (malts having more buffering capacity than grains having more buffering capacity than molasses). If it goes below pH 3.5, I know that next time I have to add a bit of lime to start with, so it does not get more sour than pH 3.8. I don't like it lower than that because (again, depending on sugar source) ferments tend to stall below that. Regards, Odin.
  24. 1 point
    I used Simply Barcodes for mine. $89 bucks. https://www.simplybarcodes.net/barcode-north-america.html
  25. 1 point
    1 lb/hr steam flow per gallon of capacity. this will get you a heat up time of about an hour from cold to pushing vapor. this translates out to a bit better than 1000btus per gallon, gas input so typically for a 300 gallon still and 300 gallon mash cooker, you want at minimum a 600,000btu boiler
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