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Sator Square Distillery

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Everything posted by Sator Square Distillery

  1. While nothing is impossible, you may have a very hard time getting that past the feds. They almost didn't approve my application because my DSP was located 100 feet from a residence located on the same property parcel. They asked me to put up a dividing fence between the residence and the building where the DSP is located. I would anticipate they would deny your application, but it's worth trying. My day job is in insurance. I brokered my own insurance policy for my DSP. Your insurance carrier would be very very adverse to having a mixed use building where a DSP is located, particularly residential. That may also be a big stumbling block even if you can get it past the feds. You should have a serious conversation with your insurance agent/broker about eligibility.
  2. Sator Square Distillery

    fermenting or infusing

    If you're infusing with real fruit after distillation you may also have to consider your filtering process. Pectin can get suspended into your spirits and may need a serious cold filtering to sort out.
  3. Sator Square Distillery

    Bad tasting gin

    I would also recommend a small bench top still for recipe development until you've got your recipe where you want it. Then you can scale it up and tweak it as you need. That way you're not wasting a lot of your base spirit. You're not going to easily be able to get the botanicals out of your gin through redistillation. You're better off starting over since any residuals left in there are going to throw off your recipe going forward anyway.
  4. Sator Square Distillery

    COLA flavored whiskey problem

    I just want to throw it out there that my limited experience with FONL and COLAS online has shown me that people here on this site often know more about the TTB manuals then the specialists we are assigned to. So it's possible there might not be anything wrong with your formula or label application. I just went through 2 months of hell trying to get a formula and label approved. Only approved after finally being assigned to a second specialist who correctly read their own manual. Just saying.
  5. Sator Square Distillery

    Grape Juice, Must, or Pomace sources

    As others said your best bet is get pomace during grape harvest time. You should contact several vineyards/wineries near you to line up and arrange to pick up their pressed pomace. Some vineyards just compost theirs, so they may let it go at a good price. Who knows, maybe you could work out a trade. You could process it all at once and store the pomace wine or the low wines made from it to last the rest of the year while you make other things. Juice is very expensive and that price of 50-60 bucks sounds about right. Even if it's not premium juice, that's almost 19 liters that could be made into wine, which is about 25 bottles. You're unlikely to find a supplier of fresh juice that will part with it for less than that.
  6. Sator Square Distillery


    I'm navigating the same thing with FedEx. PITA. Like a lot of people I didn't know how lengthy the process was to get it done. Luckily I have a friend who has an alcohol shipping license that was willing to ship out some of my samples to competitions until my account gets activated.
  7. Sator Square Distillery

    Difficulty with COLA Label Approval

    My label as submitted reads Marc Brandy with XXX flavor. The problem seems to be that on my formula I used the word "pomace". I did that because yes, I fermented grape pomace and then distilled said pomace wine into a Marc/Pomace Brandy. The specialist doesn't seem to understand that "Marc" and "Pomace" is interchangeable. Very annoying. I think I'm just going to submit a second formula that only has the word Marc in it and then resubmit the same label. It would be quicker then trying to get the specialist to read their own manual I guess.
  8. Sator Square Distillery

    Difficulty with COLA Label Approval

    I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on how to speak to a human being at the TTB COLA Distilled Spirits label department. I submitted a label about a month ago for a Marc Brandy. Since it's flavored, I had to first submit a formula. In my formula I describe the end product as a pomace brandy, as I have made it with 100% wine grape pomace. On my label I wanted it to be identified as a Marc Brandy. I figured this is no problem because in Chapter 4, on page 4-7 of the TTB's class and type designation manual, it reads: POMACE BRANDY OR MARC BRANDY “Pomace Brandy” or “Marc Brandy” is grape pomace or marc brandy. Other types of pomace or marc brandy must be further identified, e.g., “Apple Pomace Brandy,” “Pear Marc Brandy” Clearly, by the TTB's definition pomace brandy and Marc brandy are interchangeable terms. Either of these terms applies to my brandy. My TTB specialist has sent it back to me twice asking me to have my label redone as a pomace brandy. I cannot reach anyone at the TTB as no one answers the phone there. I have left numerous messages and no one has called me back, and I've sent emails asking for help clarifying my label. Does anyone know of any way to reach a person there?
  9. Sator Square Distillery

    Possible Mash Infection, Need Help

    Grinding your grain, particularly a great deal of it, in the same room you ferment has the potential to cause problems. It's not necessarily something that you could easily mitigate just by a cleaning regime as all that fine particulate gets airborne. It doesn't mean it has anything to do with the problem at hand even if they're doing that (which they may not be). But if he's working with his customer to take a hard look at their operation, it's just a good idea to be as comprehensive as possible. I would think that would be fairly obvious, but what do I know.
  10. Sator Square Distillery

    Possible Mash Infection, Need Help

    A lot of great information here. I learned some new and helpful things here myself. Looks like it's been zeroed in on as the problem, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere whether they're grinding their grain in the same room they ferment. I'd advise doing that in a separate room or outside if possible. Worth considering in addition to everything else.
  11. Sator Square Distillery

    Organic distilled spirits means exactly what?

    I don't want to throw a wrench in here, but organic does not mean pesticide or "chemical" free. It can mean that only certified organic pesticides or fungicides were used in production. There may be some environmental benefit to sourcing only "organic" ingredients, and I'll leave that for people to decide for themselves. But to be clear, organically grown food can be (and usually is) treated with pesticides and fungicides -- just organic ones.
  12. Sator Square Distillery

    Hello from south central PA!

    Welcome and cheers from SE PA. I am a very very (very) small producer here. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions I might be able to help you with.
  13. Sator Square Distillery

    Federal Excise Tax and my thoughts

    Pay down some debt and invest in more equipment. I don't imagine a lot of price reduction going on. This is a gift to producers to help them out, not to consumers that are already paying for products they want.
  14. Sator Square Distillery

    Odin on Gin

    Hi Odin- Wouldn't "multi-shot" technically be compounding? If one is distilling a concentrated gin for the purposes of diluting it into GNS, how would that be different than adding concentrated gin essence to GNS (ie. compounding) to make a compound gin? Is it just the scale of the process that is different?
  15. Sator Square Distillery

    BLOOM in bottle???

    If you're 100% certain that the bottles themselves are defective, you may be able to reasonably return them if you purchased them via a business credit card. All vendors that use payment processors have to comply with the terms of refunds, exchanges and returns of that processor. If you're not getting any answers from the vendor you could call your credit card company and file a dispute for defective goods.
  16. Sator Square Distillery

    Hello from Tasmania.

    Glad to see you here!
  17. Sator Square Distillery

    Apple Brandy Cuts

    I'm actually running a very small test batch of apple brandy off of cider at the moment. First time here also. There's a much larger heads cut than I've had to make before, which is exactly what I've heard. The volume of heads may depend on a lot of variables such as varietal of apple, yeast used, ferment temp or phase of the moon for all I know. But it's easily twice as much heads as I'm used to accounting for. I'll be interested in hearing thoughts on the subject myself.
  18. Sator Square Distillery

    Anyone running a Dragon Still?

    I've got some SD parts on my modular system. They're well made and work great. They ship fast and stand behind their products. If you have a question they're right on top of it. I would definitely recommend them to anyone.
  19. Sator Square Distillery

    Spirit Still Cooling System

    You'd need a very very large holding tank if you're not using some method to dissipate the heat. Like a swimming pool. If you don't have a lot of space to work with, a chilling system might work for you and there are vendors here that would be happy to help you out. You could also circulate your hot water to preheat your mash, or run it through radiators to heat your shop in the winter. All that heat cost money, and if there's a way to put it to good use you should do it. My still is very small compared to most businesses here, but my method works. I pump a glycol solution from a tank to the condensers, then outside through the wall to the side of the building, through a radiator which has an industrial fan blasting through it, then back into the tank. I can run my still all day long without any coolant issues, and there's no reason it can't be scaled up to larger radiators and fans, or multiples with more pumps if I need more. Find what works for you.
  20. Sator Square Distillery

    Gin Fragrance

    What everyone else said is totally correct. I've had good results using Angelica root as a fixative in my gin.
  21. Sator Square Distillery

    Pomace Brandy required labeling statement

    Thank you for the clarity. I appreciate it.
  22. Sator Square Distillery

    Pomace Brandy required labeling statement

    I have a question about labeling regarding pomace brandy that may have come up for some of your before. I understand that if you're aging it for less than 2 years, that a statement of age is required on the label. But if it isn't aged at all, would it simply be considered a grappa instead, and not require any statement of age? I want to label our bottle as a pomace or marc brandy, not a grappa. The guidance is somewhat vague to my reading. What is the appropriate labeling on an unaged pomace brandy?
  23. Sator Square Distillery

    Gin Cloudiness

    Can you explain a little more about your method? At what ABV is it louching? Rather than time consuming filtering, I'd try adding your neutral proofed to your target ABV until it clears up. Going forward you should look at your botanical bill and consider backing it off a bit, or perhaps macerating for less time. It'll take some investigating to zero in on the problem.
  24. Sator Square Distillery

    NGS guys in your Guild?

    I feel like there's plenty of room for everyone. So long as someone isn't claiming to be producing something they're not, I don't see any problem. I'm just getting started myself, and I'll be using grapes that we grow ourselves on our own vineyard. It can't get more straight from the field to the bottle. I would have no issues at all being part of a diverse group that includes those that grow their own product, source it and buy it to mash and ferment themselves or straight up purchase GNS, redistill or infuse or whatever. There's a lot of creative processes out there, and it's my view that we can all benefit from sharing what we've learned with each other.
  25. Sator Square Distillery

    File under "marketing"

    I'm not an attorney. But as I understand it, it's not easy to get a patent for a recipe. You'd have to demonstrate that your process is both "novel" and "non-obvious". I would think that a sour mash recipe is probably both of those things. But what do I know.