Trevor

Interresting rticle with suggestionas for standardising Rum labeling:

Rum label transparency is of substantial interest to many enthusiasts. No, not whether you can see through the label or not. Rather, transparency in exactly how the rum was made.

While the rum world has made great strides towards greater transparency recently, there’s still a great distance for brands to travel. Information disclosure is still a “wild west” situation, with most brands approaching it ad hoc … if at all. This isn’t to dismiss the efforts of those forward-thinking brands who do it well and consistently, but in the industry as a whole, there’s much which can be improved.

https://cocktailwonk.com/2020/09/rum-label-transparency-quantifying.html

So what are you thinking?

6 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

I was always under the impression that the OFC designation stood for Old Fire Copper when E.H. Taylor founded the distillery in the 1800s, not Old Fashioned Copper, as used today in the marketing materials.

Looking at the trade advertisements you posted, this pretty much proves it.

I think the OFC name confusion goes back a long way. Here's a link to a 1895 case that shows they were confused on what it stood for and either way, neither Old Fashioned Copper nor Old Fire Copper are able to be trademarked for the same reason you cant trademark Old Sour Mash. It might also explain why they let the 1880 O.F.C. trademark lapse and created a new OFC trademark.

https://books.google.com/books?id=MkosAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA654&dq="Old+Fashioned+Copper"+whiskey&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGu9PcnIXiAhWnUt8KHf1UAfEQ6AEITTAH#v=onepage&q="Old Fashioned Copper" whiskey&f=false

The term fire copper seems to have come from the brewery process.  "steam fire copper" is another variant that used steam. Here area few descriptions:

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The boiling of the wort with hops is the next operation involved in the manufacture of beer. The copper is the vessel in which this is carried out. There are two kinds in use, the "fire-copper," which is directly heated by fire, and the "steam-copper," heated by steam.

Fire-coppers are built over a brick furnace; the lower end is pan-shaped. Half-way up it widens out slightly, thence to the top the sides are vertical or sloping. The old-fashioned coppers are open, but in many breweries they are closed, and the contents are boiled under a slight pressure. Some brewers prefer to boil pale ale worts in open coppers.

Modern breweries are often fitted with steam coppers. Each of these has a jacketed bottom forming the steam-chamber, where steam is injected under pressure, and, the wort thus heated in the copper above. The copper may also be heated by a steam coil placed inside near the bottom. Steam coppers may be open at the top, but often they are closed. The accompanying figure shows the construction of a modern form of a closed copper heated by a furnace. It is provided with stirring gear so that the contents of the vessel may be thoroughly mixed.

==================================

Steam-Coppers.—These differ considerably in shape from fire-coppers. The bottom is bellied outwards, and is made of considerable thickness to withstand the pressure of the steam (Fig. 69a). The sides may, as shown in the figure, be carried straight up or they may slightly taper outwards. Attached to and surrounding the bottom of the copper there is an iron dome, which is somewhat larger in size, so that a cavity of from three or four inches, B, is left between its interior and the bottom of the copper. Into this high-pressure steam is admitted by a cock, C, an air-tap being provided to allow the imprisoned air to escape when steam is turned on. This is a very necessary precaution, since, as air is so highly expansible by heat, if its exit were not amply provided for an explosion might occur. A pipe for carrying off the condensed water passes from the bottom of the steamjacket to the steam-trap, D, which latter permits the water to escape but holds back the steam. The wort-pipe, E, passes through the centre of the copper bottom. The steam-copper possesses several distinct advantages over the older fire-copper. It can be heated up before the introduction of the wort, and the wort quickly raised to a temperature which puts an end to all further diastatic action. The readiness with which the heat can be applied or arrested is a point very much in its favour. It is also vastly more economical; a fire-copper, according to Professor Schwackhb'fer,1 only utilises about 30 per cent, of the available heat of the fuel consumed, while a steam-copper utilises 70 per cent., and thus a saving of more than half the fuel employed is effected.

============================

https://books.google.com/books?id=1VvXAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA88&dq=steam+"fire+copper"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiftcLO5IXiAhWCdN8KHc0gCvMQ6AEIRTAF#v=onepage&q=steam "fire copper"&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?pg=PA88&dq=steam+"fire+copper"&id=1VvXAAAAMAAJ&output=text

https://books.google.com/books?id=iIsoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA441&dq=steam+"fire+copper"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiftcLO5IXiAhWCdN8KHc0gCvMQ6AEIPzAE#v=onepage&q=steam "fire copper"&f=false

As long as there have been labels on spirits there have been marketing terms to differentiate one product from another. Sometimes they use terms to describe ingredients like Rye, Wheat, Corn or Molasses. "Old" and "pure "were often used and abused to imply age and purity. They also used terms like Bourbon, Monongahela, Irish  and Scotch that imply to both a special process and geographic area. Sometimes they used terms like "sour mash", "Sweet Mash" to describe the process used to create the spirit. "Double Distilled", "Triple distilled" were terms referred to the number of times the product was run through the still. Of all these terms, most have survived prohibition or have seen some sort of rebirth as the number of new craft distilleries booms. But one important term has yet to make a meaningful comeback - "Fire Copper". When the continuous patent still was patented by Aeneas Coffey in 1822 it created a revolution in the distilling industry. Before then distillers largely had to use large pot stills to mass produce as they became popular. With an industrial method of producing spirits as a continuous process it quickly threatened many of the smaller spirits producers. These smaller producers needed a way to market to their customers to show their product was a true craft product made in batches in copper stills. "Fire copper" and "Pure Fire Copper" quickly became that term. From the 1850s through the Prohibition in the US the term was frequently seen on labels. After Prohibition the term was largely lost to history. Today about the only remnant is the Old Fire Copper (O.F.C.) label but more often the OFC is said to mean Old Fashioned Copper.

Exactly. They take you to a fake museum and nowhere near the distillery.

Barralito was closed to tours when I went: Currently, we are closed for visits due to construction on site.  We are building a Visitor Center that should be available in January when we will have the facilities for tours. 

Sorry for the inconvenience,

Edmundo B. Fernández, Inc.

I would say avoid the Bacardi tour. The other distillery in San Juan didn't have tours operating. The Bacardi tour is fake. Honestly the best part was hanging out on Condado Beach. Costco is a good place to stock up on booze and food. Cuba was a lot more interesting. Actually, Old San Juan was great too.

Slick!   I've never seen something like this .Very inventive.

The designer sells the design to fabricators. If you start fabbing these or something similar please send me a message. I'm been trying to convince my cousin who is a welder to try making me a few.

The base was designed for Montanya Distillers by a company called  Resource Engineering Group or REG. There another distillery called Bluewater in Washington that uses the design too.

Dodson Harper, P.E., S.E.

Montanya Distillers in Colorado has a copper alembic in a gas firebox you may want to look at. I tracked down the fabricator a while back. Could be converted for wood since the firebox is basically a stove. I like your idea and might be interested. I can send pics and the little info i have if you want.

I am headed to Cuba and Puerto Rico in November. Does anyone have any rum distilleries, sugar producers or suppliers they would recommend visiting?

Was this built by Buzick Lumber? 

A building collapse at the Barton 1792 distillery in Bardstown sent thousands of barrels of aging bourbon crashing to the ground.

Bardstown fire officials said the collapse happened at Barton 1792 after 11 a.m. Friday.

:  Bardstown, Kentucky fire chief believes the #bourbon from a warehouse collapse @Barton1792 is running into a nearby creek; awaiting EPA arrival. https://t.co/DDfWsMLfb6

I'm currently searching for a Trademark. The Patent and Trademark Website help pages aren't the most helpful. So Far here are my best tips. I'm not a lawyer. Please contribute if you have knowledge or experience to share.

In general most people will say to hire a lawyer.  I would think the best first step is to not waste the lawyer's time and your money by trying to trademark something you yourself could have determined is trademarkable. In general you don't want a trademark that is merely descriptive. It shouldn't be merely a surname. It shouldn't be a  geographical place name indicating where you are(in most cases). The best trademarks are suggestive, arbitrary or fanciful. If possible trademark the name words only first (word mark). 

1)  Go to https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-application-process/search-trademark-database

2) Click "Search Trademarks"

3) Click "Word and/or Design Mark Search (Free Form) "

4) To search, enter this in the search box and click "Submit Query"

Quote

 

Because the Trademark office lumps beer, wine and spirits into the same category you have to check both "International Classes" 32(beer) and 33 ( wine). Additionally, because there are things like brew pubs and winery restaurants you have to check 43 (restaurants), the restaurant trademark class

(live)[LD] and (MY_DESIRED_NAME)[COMB]  and  (033)[IC]

(live)[LD] and (MY_DESIRED_NAME)[COMB]  and  (043)[IC]

 

If your name has more than one word try it this way:

(live)[LD] and (MY_DESIRED_NAME_FIRST_WORD)[COMB] and (MY_DESIRED_NAME_SECOND_WORD)[COMB]  and  (033)[IC]

 

 

4) Google your desired trademark along with key words like brewery, beer, wine, distillery, whisky, etc. Unfortunately a company can claim a trademark infringement even if they did not register with the Trademark office. 

Additional info:

CLASS 32 (Light beverages) Beers; mineral and aerated waters and other nonalcoholic drinks; fruit drinks and fruit juices; syrups and other preparations for making beverages.
CLASS 33 (Wine and spirits) Alcoholic beverages (except beers).
CLASS 43 (Hotels and Restaurants) Services for providing food and drink; temporary accommodations.

On 5/12/2018 at 10:27 AM, Southernhighlander said:

We just finished this 100 gallon operating capacity still with a 6"  three plate stainless bubble plate column this week.  This still has enough copper internals in the column to guarantee 100% copper vapor interaction.   The price for this still as it sits is only $3,319.50.  

That is a very sharp looking still.

11 minutes ago, Southernhighlander said:

Hi Trevor,

 

The pics were uploaded to ADI forums and the load fine on my end.  I checked on my other office computers and my lap top at home and they load fine on those as well.  I wonder if they are loading okay for everyone else?

Strange, they are working now.  Maybe it was a network thing.

On 5/12/2018 at 10:27 AM, Southernhighlander said:

We just finished this 100 gallon operating capacity still with a 6"  three plate stainless bubble plate column this week.  This still has enough copper internals in the column to guarantee 100% copper vapor interaction.   The price for this still as it sits is only $3,319.50.  

Can you upload the pictures again? Picture links are broken.

Who bought it?

1 hour ago, Silk City Distillers said:

Less of a patent for a new kind of distillation, seems to have more in common with a carter head.  Combination carter head/thumper?

He states that the still, thumper, and condenser are not part of the invention, and it's really the third chamber that's the innovation.  It has a chamber for herbs, flavoring, or even activated carbon.  It has an additional set of perforated plates, and some kind of variable thumper?

 

 

I was thinking something similar. His invention seems to be a doubler then a carbon filter then a botanical chamber.

Still-->Doubler->Doubler->Charcoal-->Botanicals-->Plates or Perforated Disc-->Worm

I Still
II Doubler
III Extra Vessel
A vapor expansion to lose entrained foreign matter
B space with perforated bottom or stacked dishes for charcoal or deodorizing
C Conic Head/chamber
D Water still 
d. is a faucet fill inlet funnel for D
E
F egg-shaped or double-conic head or vessel
G Screw appendage to remove head to fill with botanicals?
1
2 vapor from still
3 vapor from doubler
4 return for redistill?
5 return for redistill?
6 pipe from top of chamber A to worm to draw off less refined vapor
7 pipe from top of B to worm?
8 pipe from water still to worm?
9 pipe from apex of conical chamber C to Worm with pet cock valve (primary vapor path)
10 conical head fill pipe
IV Worm or Refridgerator (radiator)
  

I stumbled across an interesting old patent for a still improvement. Can't quite figure is this thing out but I have reason to believe the inventor had a lot of distillery experience. The PDF has the description. Thoughts?

JC.Cookson.1868.Still-Patent.US81605.pdf

I looking for any pre 1900 books that describe how to set up and run a distillery. Especially how to choose a distillery location. Many pre 1900 distilleries near Virginia seem to have been located   by mill runs, rivers, creeks, etc. 

14 minutes ago, SlickFloss said:

As was earlier mentioned yeast will need refrigeration unless you propagate naturally, which although risky I think would be to your credit and make you absolutely unique (and save you some cash, but replicability will be tough). 

 

Is your slab already poured?

No slab yet. I live in a heavily regulated county so I need to have everything on my building permit or they will kill be on submisison fees.

2 minutes ago, SlickFloss said:

Echoing everyone above: Look into the sombrero of death concept. You have a large one in your plans and its a problem.

 

I would consider making your single line floor drain a T if you're using a basic trench, especially if your floor isn't already pitched for a floor drain (I'm assuming you're moving into a building and installing your own trench). I would look into the floor slit drain if I were you, and if you added it it would work well as a single line or a T. As a smaller operation it will be expensive but it will really help you keep everything sanitary being able to flush that out easily and allow for less operators.

I would add another concrete pad for a chiller or put it on roof. Where is your air compressor? Intrinsically safe instead of explosion proof will save you alot of money. You definitely don't have enough storage, think about fitting grain bags, enzyme, nutrients, tools, hardware supply (Oar, mixers, hoses, siphon tubes, lab type equipment, refractometer, hydrometer, etc.) all in that small supply storage. 

 

I think you should add a hoist/lift to the ceiling somewhere, this could help to allow you to run as a single operator.

Where will you store samples of finished goods?

You need some processing tanks of some type. Blending Proofing Mixing Cleaning they can do it all but you need them to do anything.

The building will be a new construction 30x50 Steel building. Not even sure how to slope the floor yet but I'll extend the drain for sure. There is a good possability I will have a lot of storage on the slab. But it can;t be anything that needs refrigeration.

On 9/23/2017 at 3:27 PM, MG Thermal Consulting said:

Are you going to use a chiller for cooling stills or well water? Up to 10 HP you can get chillers in 208-230/1/60, outdoor you'll need glycol mix for the chiller if you have any freeze issues.  I do carry a "dry" glycol cooler to satisfy cooling in winter, popular up Northern US.

Usually farm distillers don't have 3 phase power and water wells that don't satisfy the usage for distillery cooling.

Really good questions. I'm actually in a urban/suburban area even though I'll be classified as a Farm Distillery. I have a call into the power company to get an answer on what kind of power is available. I have city water available or I can us a well. The city water will cost me >$20k to tap into due to fees. $11K plus equipment for a water well. But the driller can't guarantee flow rate. So I'm on the fence a little. The other down side of city water is they use that consumption to determine your sewer bill as well. I'm on a tight budget so I have been trying to figure the best method/sources for heating and cooling. Ady advice or recommendations are welcome.  I'm in Springfield, VA.