Scott @ Twenty2Vodka

can you post a picture of the bottle shape?

just posted a still for sale if you want a 2nd one....

For Sale: "The Big One" in the lineup of units pictured below... MP 800 Turbo Commercial immersion blender by Robot-Coupe Our history with this equipment: We purchased this unit new with the intent of using it to chop up cooked potato for test batches toward eventual potato vodka. A damaged during shipping package caused us to return the device which was swapped for a new unit. As things go, by the time that was sorted out and we got our new MP800, we of couse changed up our recipe for a different and ultimately better system for us. The result was a new in box commercial blender that we have no current need for. The shaft of this immersion blender measures 29" long, easily capable of blending 30-50 gallons of liquid. Manufacturer Website for complete specs: http://www.robot-coupe.com/en-usa/catalogue/turbo-range,143/mp-800-turbo,156/ New from online stores, this unit goes for $1634.00 according to google shopping (URL is too long to share, pls google for yourself...) Asking Price: $1000 if you are in Maine and can pay cash when you pick it up.... or $1100 if you are not in Maine and want to pay with a credit card. The extra $100 to non-Mainers to cover shipping to you in the lower 48 + insurance on the purchase value (sorry, you can't not get insurance, that's my lesson learned...). Or bitcoin..., i'll consider a bitcoin offer if you have some to trade, email me :). Please email me questions and offers to scott - at- twenty2vodka.com. Thanks! -Scott

For Sale: "PDA-II (PDA-2) LM Medium Power Distillation Device" constructed by the Amphora Society. (The Amphora Society literally wrote the book on artisan distilling, see the Compleat Distiller, http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0476008190). For sale is the copper column (incl any hoses, attached copper parts, and brass flange pictured) only, anything stainless in the picture is not included. About the PDA-II's time with us: We purchased this unit new from Mike McCaw and the Amphora Society in 2006 leading up to the license of our facility. We played with this piece a little while we were in our recipe-development phase. It was purchased with the intent of being an integral part of our process, however after all of the pieces finally came together, this unit was not part of the final plan. More details about the PDA-II are best copied from the introduction to the paperwork that will accompanies the unit: "The PDA-II family of distillation equipment is intended for pilot plant and small commercial scale use. The PDA-II LM can operate with 4-10 kW of boiler power. The design is optimized for 5-6kW. It is intended for professional use, by persons trained and familiar with distillation procedures. Licensing, registration, and adherence to local rules, regulations, and laws are the responsibility of the purchaser. The Liquid Management (LM) version of the PDA-II family is fully adjustable for the production of all types of spirits. When operate at high reflux ratios, it produces ultra-pure azeotropic ethanol, suitable for laboratory use, or for the compounding of medicines, essences, or spirits. This degree of purity is obtained by restricting the device to very high reflux ratios, in the range of 90-100%. This allows the column to be equilibrated, and for any methanol or ethyl acetate ("heads") present to be drawn off most efficiently at very low collection rates before beginning to collection of purified ethanol. When operated at lower reflux ratios, it can achieve any desired degree of separation or purification along with the corresponding flavor profile. IT can operate as a simple pot-still, a whiskey still, brandy still, rum still, or any other type of beverage still, all by adjusting the reflux ratio and the amount of packing in the column." Measurements & Dims: Height: 56 inches Diameter: 3 Inches Packing: Structured Copper Mesh. Included with purchase is a large quantity of unused mesh (pictured). Unit will be shipped disassembled. It is the responsibility of the purchaser to re-assemble. Original instructions are included, and no fancy techniques (like soldering or brazing) are required. Asking price: $2,975 (includes shipping and insurance to anywhere in the lower 48). Credit cards welcomed. The picture attached and uploaded has been scaled down to meet forum posting requirements. Full size pics can be found at www.twenty2vodka.com/ADI/PDA2/ Additional questions, please email me directly to scott - at- twenty2vodka.com as I can't seem to get the forum emails to come thru. or call 207-974-3055 Thanks!! -Scott

wow. your english is good enough to curse i guess. Every time someone answered your question, you insisted on wanting a simpler answer. It takes a calculation to "fill in your blanks". And if you aren't willing to fill in the easy early blanks now, you are going to have a very unpleasant time with all of the other harder blanks that are still in front of you. Again, best of luck, you are going to need it. (I'm talking about the luck). -Scott

In my opinion, the price per piece you are telling me is about 1/3 of what I would have guessed. I've talked with other manufacturers, and I'm pretty sure I'm not getting ripped off on my glass price.... So, sounds like you may have found a deal, but then again, you don't have any glass in hand yet either.... Just throwing some caution out there while you are still in the planning stages for this part of it, there is a significant chance that your glass prices are going to be alot higher than $1.25 each, and if you can work some cushions into your financials in case, you can always put them into marketing if you don't need them.... Best of luck, -Scott

can you post a picture of the bottle design you are rejecting? I'm curious to see the design to understand the importance of lines inside the bottle.... perhaps your design is too complicated? Could you get by with a perfect outside shape, and then convey the lines using a shrink wrap label, or some other form of decoration? Also, do you have a ballpark of the per-piece cost you are anticipating on paying for your custom design? I currently go with a stock shape from Bruni, and the glass/decoration is one of the most expensive components of the assembly...more than fed excise tax... I considered doing a custom bottle before i was in production, and looking back, I am grateful I do not have to pay the custom bottle price, nor have the overhead of a custom mold on my books. If you are curious what my bottle looks like, visit www.twenty2vodka.com and scroll down a bit after confirming your age. Thanks! -Scott

can you post a picture of the bottle design you are rejecting? I'm curious to see the design to understand the importance of lines inside the bottle.... perhaps your design is too complicated? Could you get by with a perfect outside shape, and then convey the lines using a shrink wrap label, or some other form of decoration? Also, do you have a ballpark of the per-piece cost you are anticipating on paying for your custom design? I currently go with a stock shape from Bruni, and the glass/decoration is one of the most expensive components of the assembly...more than fed excise tax... I considered doing a custom bottle before i was in production, and looking back, I am grateful I do not have to pay the custom bottle price, nor have the overhead of a custom mold on my books. If you are curious what my bottle looks like, visit www.twenty2vodka.com and scroll down a bit after confirming your age. Thanks! -Scott

I think http://bevforce.com/ will be your best resource for the "salaries" information you are looking for. Unfortunately, as Two Bit began to point out, the variables that go into each operation's setup will vary so greatly that there is no way for anyone here to answer your question accurate to your situation. Employees are one of the most expensive things you will have to deal with when you are operating, and my suggestion is plan on having as few as possible for as long as possible. I wrote an extensively detailed business plan (75+ pages before it turned into a 10page executive summary) and I don't recall having any more detail about employees in it beyond "3-5 projected after a couple years growth". Unless you are writing your plan for some local area development commission who will want to see a jobs projection because that's one of the things they are measured on, I'd keep the employee part of your plan very lean. Btw, we don't have 3-5 employees, we have just 1 (not counting my wife and myself). And that person's job is selling, hand shaking, selling, outreach, selling, visiting accounts, selling, selling, and selling. Best of luck, -Scott

We have attended WSWA twice as guests walking around the expo and sometimes into the hospitality suites (before they noticed we were distillers too). We wanted to get a feel for what others do in preparation for setting up our own exhibit booth and hospitality suites down the road. A couple lessons we learned from our attendance: 1.) Exhibiting at WSWA can be a valuable experience if your company is prepared to take the leap into real distribution. By prepared for real distribution, I'm mean specifically having an actual ability to produce quantity, and having real marketing and sales $$ at the ready to dump into each market you propose to enter. 2.) The hospitality suites are where actual deals get done, and what the brokers look forward to visiting the most so they can get some special attention. Without the suite, I don't think exhibiting is worth the time to attend. I think we calculated the cost of setting up an exhibit booth (10'x10'), plus having the smallest hospitality suite available, and 3 people there to try and manage both came in at like $17,000... That's not accounting for the exhibit materials, pos give aways, travel, meals, etc, etc, etc. But a deal into a new state with a broker excited about adding you to their portfolio would obviously make up for the expense.... As for NightClub and Bar, we attended one of those (i don't think it was an official NightClub and Bar show), but it was in the Jarvis Convention center in NYC. There were some seminars that were useful, Dale Degroff and Jr. Marino each hosted ones we attended. However the crowd was really more focused on the serving side of the game. If your product isn't available in the market they work in, then there is really nothing that can happen. I've had lots of people tell me "Hey, I know a bunch of bar managers in XYZ state, you should totally get your vodka there", but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way in our industry (as i'm sure most everyone on this forum already knows). If you already have the distribution setup with a broker who actually services popular locations, than attending a convention like NightClub and bar could potentially be valuable... So, in my opinion, If you company has the resources and is ready to make the leap, WSWA is where it happens. Also, congrats on your Double Gold at SF this year. -Scott

you can assign the still a serial number of your choosing and use that. Same with your other tanks. They just want a list of your equipment so they can calculate the max tax liability you might owe and ensure your bond covers it. The SN is really only necessary for if/when they come in and inspect.

have you tried reaching out to Scott at Catoctin Creek directly? You can try their facebook page --> https://www.facebook.com/catoctincreek or their twitter account --> https://twitter.com/catoctincreek . Of course, then there is their dot-com too at: http://catoctincreekdistilling.com/ Best of Luck, -Scott

we sourced ours from our local water treatment guy (everyone up here has a water softener). regarding specific materials, I don't recall for this unit that we were too picky on the actual material. I can tell you it's blue, and looking at mcmaster carr, it looks like we have one of the "light blocking blue" filters. The cartridge that goes in it is like a tightly wound spool of twine, again pretty standard from what I recall. My reference to mcmaster carr was more for the style that we use, and now thinking this through, part num 44075K21 is very likely what we are using for this stage of our filtering process, though with a cartridge that filters down to 5 micron. If this unit was a special material for ethanol, i think it (and the cost of such) would be sticking out in my mind a little more....sorry but that's as specific as I can get without diving into our records to find the actual purchase receipt. Like i said, this part of it is really more simple than it sounds. We are filtering vodka, so any transfer of taste would certainly convey. If you are filtering something with character (like a barrel aged spirit), and the intent is to remove particles as you described in the OP, i believe this type of filter should work just fine. -Scott

we pass our vodka through a particulate filter like the ones available here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-water-filtration-devices/=md40ae The cartridges let you choose the micron rating you want to filter down to, I think we only filter 5 micron which has been just fine at removing carbon dust from our chill-filtration process. We push the liquid through using a pneumatic diaphragm pump with standard NPT fittings. Really more simple than it sounds. Best of luck, -Scott

As a new supplier writing a business plan, I suggest projecting to get about 50% of the final (target) shelf price. For example, if the target shelf price of your high quality rum is going to be $30 per unit, project in your plan to receive about $15 per unit. The other $15 is going to go to broker markups, retail markups, and state excise tax. Once you are up and running, the $ you receive as supplier will likely be a little more than 50%, but you will look like a superstar if you make more than you project vs the other way around. Best of luck, -Scott

Don't underestimate the value of your time moving everything out, painting, letting it dry, moving everything back in, and then freaking out over that first inevitable scratch or scuff.... In my 4 years operating todate, there are just sooooooo many other things to worry over. -Scott

I would suggest leaving the concrete be (as in bare if that's what's there now) so that you can treat the floor like a floor, and not worry over scratches or spills which are bound to happen. Best of luck, -Scott

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Word. -Scott

Are you aware who exactly you are posing this question to? This is a forum comprised of people trying to make a living by creating and selling products like white whiskey. Of course the folks in this forum think there is a real demand/appetite for what they toil with everyday. Honestly. -Scott

Methinks you have not yet experienced the true cost of doing business in this industry. I could spend $1million in only a couple transactions at the moment. And i'm not talking about on equipment either... -Scott

the answer to the question of how much equity should you retain, in this economy, with no cashflow todate, and with the expenses touching 1million/yr is: "As much as someone who is will to put up the $$ will let you keep". You have no leverage here, and 10% down is still 90% away from what you think you need at this stage of the game. On top of that, one lesson I have most certainly learned starting up a biz by raising funds in exchange for equity is this: Figure out how much $ you will need, then go out and get 3x as much before you spend a penny. Same goes for cocktail ice and firewood. Best of luck, -Scott

John D, How much are you offering to pay for my time and info (I have both to offer)? Your post makes me think of one of my favorite Confucius quotes: Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in. Is that the "reward in the long run" you are talking about? I think your time would be better spent attempting to figure it out instead of waiting for a chance to complain that no one is offering it to you... Best of luck. -Scott

Am I the only one on this forum who will take any broker-distributor that will give me more of a response than "don't come back"? Congrats if you can truly be picky with the mandatory middle tier in this industry, but that has not been my experience whatsoever... Best of Luck, -Scott

Can you bend it into a coil for cheaper than $69? http://www.midwestsupplies.com/copper-immersion-wort-chiller.html?utm_medium=feeds&utm_source=google&gdftrk=gdfV24959_a_7c1306_a_7c6184_a_7c6680&gclid=CO2D4sz31rUCFUws6wod9AoAuQ