Beast

High pressure homogenization should accomplish the same thing. At least that is how they keep milk and cream from separating while the milk sits in your fridge. Homogenization also keeps chocolate milk from separating on the shelf. So without knowing for sure an educated guess is homogenization or a process similar. There are chemical emulsifiers that might do the same thing but I really doubt that they are using chemical emulsifiers. Beast.

Hello! My name is Doug Tuttle and my forum name is "Beast". My partner "Coop" and I are owners of Colorado Gold Distillery, LLC in Cedaredge, CO. We brought a lot of can do attitude and some tenacity to the adventure of building a distillery. Which was good because I brought little else in terms of knowledge of the industry. I have spent hundreds of hours studying the technique, tradition and chemistry of distilling and with each morsel of information I realize just how much more I have to learn. We did a pretty good job anticipating obstacles but still had a few surprises along the way. Learning everyday I find that the business of craft distillation is a unique, challenging and fun business. We drove our first nail on our distillery September 2007 and today we have a good number of wholesale accounts and a beautiful gift shop where we sell to a curious and eager local population, and many tourists from around the world. The highlight for visitors is a tour of our distillery. On the wholesale side we are banking on stores and restaurant/bars promoting quality Colorado distilled spirits. The wine and micro brewing industry in Colorado has capitalized on the "think global - buy local" theme and we hope to enjoy the same enthusiasm for Colorado Gold premium distilled spirits. Some get it and some do not! I have a degree in chemistry and took my first job out of college at Coors in Golden, CO. That was many, many years ago and it only applies in so much as it explains my interest in the craft distillery industry. I spent most of my work career managing or consulting in the food manufacturing industry, which has been helpful in this adventure. I also have some experience in sales and marketing while growing another business. It is the sales and marketing where I concentrate my time and efforts trying to grow our distillery into a endeavor that some day will actually "make" money (not there yet). As most of you know without selling product successfully on a larger scale it is just an enjoyable, expensive hobby. Inexperience in the process of distillation was not our biggest obstacle. The two biggest challenges have been: #1 - finding a source for small quantities of quality bottles with a good selection at a reasonable price. #2 - Distribution! I have found that it is much more political, tempermental and costly than I imagined. One and a half years ago if someone would have told me that we would have trouble getting someone to distribute a quality product without giving up my first born I would have told them that can't be right. As you can see I am still learning. I read the ADI forum almost daily, and while it a great resource what I enjoy most is knowing there is a community of people who share my interest in craft distilling. You can find us at www.coloradogolddistillery.com. Happy Distilling! Beast

Scott, Gas or Electric? My experience is that neither are really a risk unless you have a situation where there is a lot of alcohol infused in the atmospheric air. The alcohol fumes would have to be in such a concentration as to work their way into the exhaust or intake manifold of a gas unit, or be drawn into an electric motor. This is unlikely. If you have that kind of situation you will have a lot of other more immediate problems. I personally believe that an electric forklift is more dangerous than a gas unit. You have several more exposed potential flash points with electrical motors and especially the battery chargers that can be hazardous by themselves. I have seen electrical arcs from chargers and I would be more concerned about that in a distillery. The best thing is to arrange your distillery in such a way that forklift activity is a good distance from where you handle alcohol. Also keep the alcohol contained in covered containers as much as possible. Also if you are gristing grains be sure and vent or capture the fine dust from gristing. And of course if you have an alcohol spill keep any and all motors or combustion engines off until you get the spill contained. This is just an opinion based on experience. I have seen them use forklifts in warehouses where they keep nothing but oils, gases and even alcohols so they must not pose a serious threat. If your local fire experts see no problem then I think you should be fine as long as you are aware, which appears to be the case. Beast

Hello Logan, I must apologize. In spite of the clearly marked sentence "not to respond to the email" I did so out of habit. So now that I have myself straightened out I would like to respond to your posting. Yes I am very interested in an AZ distributor. We have around 70 wholesale accounts now and I have actually been looking for someone in AZ to distribute our products. Please email me at dgtuttle@bresnan.net so we can discuss further and so I can give you my phone number. Thanks! Beast

We would be interesting in discussing the show. Not sure if we can afford it right now but I have heard good things about the show and it is something we want to look into. If not this year I would like to know more about it so we can budget for it next year. I have actually discussed this same show with our State Dept of Ag and they say it is an excellent show with thousands of interested visitors. In fact they claim that this show is one of the best they attend. Please contact me at 970-596-3276 so we can discuss further. I would also be interested in attending to help staff the booth. Thanks!

I have over 70 wholesale accounts in Colorado and I am interested in an AZ distributor please contact me at 970-596-3276. Thank You.

I have 20 years of experience in food manufacturing management an unfortunately that includes an intimate experience with labeling machines. The first rule of thumb is "simpler the better". Avoid a lot of moving parts and electronics. As already pointed out round symmetrical bottles work best. If you have any square sides or odd shapes then you have to deal with "indexing" the label with involves "eye spots" and delicate eye spot sensors/switches, which then leads to timing and precise bottle positioning. Many labeling machines work well for round bottles. For wine this is common but for us spirits people we are more likely to use more creative bottle choices in regards to shape. In the wine industry they often use the same shape bottle and just change label styles or bottle colors. This means that the same labeler can be used for a wide variety of wines. For us distillers it is unlikely that we will use the same bottle for our vodka, gin, whiskey, etc..... so a one size labeler will not fit all. Also you have to make sure your label is labeling machine friendly. Which sounds simply enough but I once saw $50,000 worth of labels go out in the trash because they were not compatible with machine application. We label our bottles by hand. Until you get the kind of volume that justifies the cost and head aches of automatic labeling then I believe based on my experience with all things considered hand application is the best choice. You just have to evaluate your operation and make the decision based on if it is cost effective to invest in a labeling machine. And don't forget maintenance. You don't just go down to the local hardware for repair parts. Hopes this helps. Beast

There is a lot going on chemically on the copper. The first concern is a "stone" similar to a beer stone. This is an organic material that the copper has pulled from the distillate. Use the Sodium Hydroxide NaOH (also known as lye or caustic soda). This is a strong caustic with a very high pH. It has a high affinity for hydrogen ions and will strip them from the stone. It is denaturing (if you will) the organic molecule (think puncturing an egg yolk) and this softens the built up layers. If you get it on your hands it will have a "slimy" feel. This is because the caustic is denaturing your skin and the slimy feel is dissolved skin. Use it hot (120 - 160) but not boiling and be VERY careful. 5% Sodium Hydroxide solution is a very effective cleaning tool but also very, very dangerous if not used properly. NaOH does not rinse of easily with just water. It takes a LOT of water to rinse it off. I would recommend a weak citric acid solution or vinegar close by to neutralize the caustic. And of course use goggles and gloves. Read the MSDS carefully. Let is soak for 30 minutes. And depending how much build up you have it may take 2 -3 NaOH cleanings. The next concern are the inorganics or the "tarnish". An acid such as citric acid will work well. Unfortunately for tarnish to be totally removed (to look like brand new) using citric acid it takes some elbow grease. And since you probably cannot access the area you have a concern over you will just have to live with what the citric acid will remove. After the caustic cleaning follow with a 5% citric acid solution (low pH). This will neutralize the caustic soda and help remove some of that tarnish. One way to know if you have neutralized all the caustic soda is to check the pH of the citric after it has been rinsed through the copper. If the pH is over 7 then you will have to add more citric acid to get the pH down. A lower than 7 pH left in the still will not harm anything. And citric does rinse off easily with water. Citric acid also will "sweeten" the surface and make it inhospitable for microorganisms. While citric is safer to use than NaOH you should still use caution and read the MSDS sheets. Finally do NOT mix citric acid with bleach. It will produce chlorine gas which is deadly.

ny_spirits Our system is much like yours. I do all the traveling and call on accounts and deliver products. My partners deliver to local accounts if I am not available. As you know it is hard to keep opening accounts and managing the existing accounts especially with only a limited number of people. I have the same problem with restaurants and bars. It is a volume issue for us. I would love to have more bars and restaurants but they take a lot of time for the volume. They love the product and seem real supportive until it comes time to actually purchase. Then I get a lot of "we need to reduce our stock first" kind of responses. Which I take to mean "we get a lot of free stuff from the big distributors". I have inquired with local wineries and at least one other distillery in Colorado and there is an interest in a distribution coop. However it would be a full time job to start up, grow and maintain and none of us have that kind of time. However it is still an option. Yes we do give taste samples in the stores that allow it. Beast

Beast here again. You are right the big guys want a ton of give away stuff, throttling contracts, and they still won't push your product so you are still saddled with the cost of marketing, promotion and advertising. If you are going to call on all your clients to promote your stuff you just as well be the salesman as well. No distributor believes more in their product than the people who own their own distillery. I think a guild or a co-op is a good thing but it is hard (time consuming) to get it put together. I think if we all put in our two cents and keep it on the front burner it will help form a foundation for those of us who may be willing to get out there and set something like this up. I think it would be a pretty good business venture for someone. However I already have two businesses to keep up with so I cannot devote myself to another business venture at this time. Maybe someday when I can afford to let go of my non distilling business I will be able to set up a small producers distribution network. In Colorado I would venture to say that between the small wineries, distillers and micro breweries there are over a hundred producers. If we had a Colorado based distribution company for all of these producers I think it would work out well for everyone. Additionally here in Colorado we are just a couple short years away from legislation that would allow the likes of WalMart and City Market to sell "spirits and wines". When that happens they are not going to be interested in small Colorado producers and the Southerns and National Republics will be even less desirable to work with. At that time here in Colorado small producers will want to be in the specialty stores that concentrate on the spirits that WalMart will not carry. And the distribution will be even more specialized as well. I talked to a winery in California and they are also a distribution company and distribute not only their product but a wide variety of other wines and spirits. She told me it all stemmed originally from the same issues we all have with getting our products on the shelf. Distribution for small producers is all new to me so I am listening to all ideas and thoughts. A co-op or guild built and supported by small producers would be less likely to be swallowed up by the Southerns and National Republics. They would truely be independent and cater to the small producers who own the distribution co-op. Thanks!

Very good question that effects all small distilleries, breweries and wineries. We began self distributing and it had it's pluses. I was able to set up over 60 new wholesale accounts in 3 months. But as you mentioned I started to worry about just how many more new accounts could I open and still service the accounts I had already opened. So I started interviewing distributors and what a nightmare that was. The big distributors are.... well I cannot print that, and they don't really want to mess with the small guy. And the small distributors want up to 36% (the lowest I have found so far is 30%) and we still have to deliver the materials to their warehouses. We finally agreed on a small distributor and now we are having other problems such as prompt payment, getting a list of new accounts, follow up, and to be frank I out sold them. So as we speak today I am back on the trail of finding a new distributor or reviewing how we could continue to self distribute and grow efficiently. For those who are reading this original posting if any of you have had any experience in co-oping with other small distilleries, breweries and wineries for distribution please share your wisdom on this issue. It seems as though if a number of smaller localized producers could get along, collectively coordinate efforts and share costs a co-op distribution system might solve some of our problems. Alone few of us have the cash flow and resources to self distribute efficiently but as a group we might be able to help everyone be more successful. A truck and driver along with 2 - 3 sales people could move a lot of product. And of course someone to coordinate and make it all come together. In our area for instance we have approximately 30 wineries, 15 micro breweries and 3 small distilleries within a 150 mile radius. All them struggling with this very same issue. Again good question. Thank you! Beast

Thanks for all of your feedback I appreciate it! Beast

Jonathan - What are you distilling vodka or whiskey? Would it make a difference then for you? Thanks, Beast

My apologies I just accidently posted this question in the "Equipment" section. I was wondering where people are cutting off their tails (proof or ABV) for whiskey? And the same question for vodka? Thanks, beast

I was wondering where people were cutting off their tails (proof or ABV) for whiskey? And the same question for vodka? thanks, beast