Corson Distilling

We have very nice mash tuns with lautering options. Would you consider purchasing a new tun?

All, We are fortunate to have lots of business these days, but we are definitely available. As you can imagine, we receive a lot of inquiries--sometimes dozens in a day. This forces us to prioritize calls back based on how well they fit with the style and range of our equipment. We don't pretend to build anything and everything. Instead, we choose projects to work on that are an ideal fit for us and our customers. All the best, Tory Corson

Hello, I'm sorry to hear about the experience you're having. I'd like to share our products and services with you. We hand-build turnkey distilling systems from raw stainless and copper in Boise, Idaho (Pics below). Our current build time is 16-20 weeks. We provide free TTB permitting help, delivery, installation, and training with every system. Service and support are as important to us as the quality of our equipment. If you'd like a solid American made system without last minute price increases, give me a call, and I'll provide you a quote, schematics, and a system specification. I have references available. In the meantime, here is our website: www.corsondistilling.com We always enjoy in-person demo visits if you're interested in seeing our equipment, and how we build it first-hand. Or, check us out on social media via: Youtube | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | Google+ | Linkedin Cheers, Tory Corson (208) 407-4268 info@corsondistilling.com

BraedenB, There is much debate on this point, but agents I've talked to assert the tasting room cannot be part of the DSP bonded or general premises. The reasons vary. On our distillery layouts we indicate the bonded premises where production, processing, and storage activities occur, and the general premises where offices are located, but we always show the tasting room separate from the bonded or general premises. The extent of the separation required is often determined on a case by case basis. Here is a recent thread quoting a TTB agent on the subject: http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=6101 If you have more questions feel free to email me: info@corsondistilling.com Cheers, Tory

Our test indicated roughly 300 cP for corn. We used a simple viscosity test using a tube and ball. We determined the viscosity by measuring how quickly the ball dropped down the tube through the mash.

If that rubber hose is punctured or damaged during operation someone could be burned severely--steel all the way.

Jimmy, Central to your question are several intersecting issues relating to ownership vs. control, etc. As stated above, a clear set of organizational documents should be in place before any business begins. I'm not a practicing lawyer, but I do recommend their services in these matters. Don't build your distillery on the sand. As for protecting your recipes, they are generally only protectable as trade secrets. They have to be truly secret, which means they can't be in the public domain. Your secret bourbon recipe may not be so secret. Too much emphasis on secret recipes as a business asset can be dangerous, and misleading. Instead, focus on building a long lasting business. Verbal agreements lend themselves quite well to battles that will destroy your business. If you truly have a secret recipe, you must take reasonable measures to establish it as intellectual property owned and protected by your company in writing. Companies use non-disclosure agreements to require secrecy by all to whom they are shared. Recipes can't be patented or copyrighted. It wouldn't be in the public interest to forgo food or beverage options for anyone. Imagine if I couldn't make a grilled cheese sandwich without paying you a license fee. Keep in mind, a trade secret is not protection against independent discovery. Last, trade secrets are generally governed under state law, so start local if possible in your search for counsel as with all things. Here is a link to a great resource provided by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on aquiring intellectual property protection for food products: http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/independent/eye/201306/ADVICE.jsp Tory

From 19 CFR 5.22: “Fruit brandy” is brandy distilled solely from the fermented juice or mash of whole, sound, ripe fruit, or from standard grape, citrus, or other fruit wine, with or without the addition of not more than 20 percent by weight of the pomace of such juice or wine, or 30 percent by volume of the lees of such wine, or both (calculated prior to the addition of water to facilitate fermentation or distillation). This seems to say you can use juice, mash, or wine of fruit. I'd guess the juice used for your concentrate must come from whole, sound, ripe fruit. The assumption being that your apple juice came from apples.

Amy, Here is an industry circular from the TTB, which lists common errors: http://www.ttb.gov/industry_circulars/archives/2004/04-01.html Also, take a look at the mandatory labeling requirements in the Beverage Alcohol Manual (BAM). Keep in mind, the BAM is from 2007, and is not entirely up-to-date. Always double check the CFR. Here is the BAM, and the CFR parts most relevant to labeling approval. Feel free to PM me with specific questions. Mandatory Labeling Requirements from the BAM 27 CFR Part 5, Labeling and advertising of Distilled Spirits 27 CFR Part 16 , Alcoholic Beverage Health Warning Statement Cheers, Tory

Great info gents! I just reread both articles, and they both discuss the effects of copper in the condenser. I'm not endorsing their findings, but it's a good starting point for exploration of the original question, which was: I'm still working through the articles again for a third time. I'm especially curious to know what you guys think about the study using Forsyths stills. They basically built identical stainless and copper wash and spirit stills side by side. Then, they changed out the components one-by-one to study the effects of copper vs. stainless at each stage in distillation. There is a ton of info in there, and it's definitely worth exploring. Cheers

Unless I'm mistaken both articles discuss the effects of copper condensers. The Whiskey Science article discusses the effects of copper condensers at the end of paragraph 7, while The Impact of Copper discusses the effects of copper vs stainless condensers throughout. Sorry for any confusion. Here are the links again for perusal. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2011.tb00450.x/asset/j.2050-0416.2011.tb00450.x.pdf?v=1&t=i1zi53yl&s=ace8ba985ea1a3bb8f2200da66a5a5394cff3752 http://whiskyscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/copper.html

It depends on which type of whiskey you are producing, whether you are adding flavoring, how long its been aged, etc. For example, according to the current TTB list of products requiring formula (pre-COLA) approval, "A blend of straight bourbon whiskies" does not require formula approval, but "Blended bourbon whiskey" does require formula approval. Also, flavored whisky requires formula approval. Keep in mind, the TTB reserves the right to require "a pre-COLA product evaluation for a specific product even though no such requirement is listed in the charts." Here is the chart: http://www.ttb.gov/industry_circulars/archives/2007/pre-cola_eval_spirits.pdf Here is an app that will tell you if you need formula approval provided by the TTB: http://www.ttb.gov/tutorials/ic2007-4_help.shtml Here is the TTB page explaining the formula process: http://www.ttb.gov/formulation/pre_cola.shtml Tory

According to the following quote, from the Whiskey Science article linked above, copper condensers deposit copper salts in the distillate, which catalyze the formation of carcinogenic Ethyl carbamate during aging. "Ethyl carbamate (EC, urethane) was a hot topic in the 1980s, as it was found to be carcinogenic and to increase during maturation phase of spirits. At the time various whiskies, especially grain or bourbon whiskies from stainless steel column stills were producing spirits with way too much EC and the concentrations seemed only to increase during maturation. It was found that copper in the ascending phase on still decreased EC dramatically and copper was (re)introduced into column stills. Adversely copper salts in the new make catalyze the EC formation during the maturation, so most grain distillers use only stainless steel in the condensers to diminish the amount of copper residues in the new make. (emphasis added)" Here is another post on the subject as well: http://adiforums.com/index.php?showtopic=3766

Here is an interesting article on this topic. They found that a copper worm in the condenser has a greater affect on flavor during the stripping run, than during the spirit run. The Impact of Copper in Different Parts of Malt Whisky Pot Stills on New Make Spirit Composition and Aroma

Scrounge, I just PM'd you a recommendation.