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750ml vs. 1L Bottle - Selling to Taverns


sailorman9

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The liter is the traditional size for on-premise sales but on-premise retailers are also used to the fact that many premium products are only available in the 750 ml size. Saying "we prefer liters" is kind-of a knee jerk reaction. Tuthilltown's products are mostly in 375 ml bottles and they seem to be doing okay.

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I have talked to a few tavern owners and they would rather buy a 1L product than a 750ml. What is your experience? Is the 750ml bottle a harder sell to taverns?

I am in the wholesale side of the business, and I cannot stress the advantage of using a 1L bottle. The Distillers I have talked to have this idea that a special product looks more "hand crafted" in smaller bottles and not that "mass Produced" look. I however feel that a 1L bottle is a major advantage in the "on premise" and even the "private label" areas of the liquor business. If there is anyone with 1L bottles or knows a good suppier of the 1L bottles please let me know.

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I have been asked by some bars for 1 liter bottles, maybe 25%. Most are used to purchasing the 750 ml. For some it really is about cost. I will never be able to compete with the mass produced spirits on cost, on quality however, that's another story. Quality is the sale for us, not dollars per once.

Besides, most of us small guys are only able to buy one pallet of glass at a time. One item for off sale and one for on sale? If you have the money go for it. As you get bigger you will be asked to make a liter product. But by then you may be able to afford it.

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I have been asked by some bars for 1 liter bottles, maybe 25%. Most are used to purchasing the 750 ml. For some it really is about cost. I will never be able to compete with the mass produced spirits on cost, on quality however, that's another story. Quality is the sale for us, not dollars per once.

Besides, most of us small guys are only able to buy one pallet of glass at a time. One item for off sale and one for on sale? If you have the money go for it. As you get bigger you will be asked to make a liter product. But by then you may be able to afford it.

Lee, You make a few good points:

1) yes it is the objective to win the quality, but if you can compete with the price point as well you can really take on the big guy.

2)getting a pallet of each...I agree not a good move, so how about only sell 1L bottles and only buy the 1L in pallete. Off premise will have no problem having the 1L bottles in place of the 750ml and on premise will have a slightly larger bottle on their top shelf to stand out against the same big boys.

Side note: Lee killer website, I love your setup and hope to visit by the years end. Perhaps we can talk about a few ideas some time.

Logan

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Lee, You make a few good points:

1) yes it is the objective to win the quality, but if you can compete with the price point as well you can really take on the big guy.

2)getting a pallet of each...I agree not a good move, so how about only sell 1L bottles and only buy the 1L in pallete. Off premise will have no problem having the 1L bottles in place of the 750ml and on premise will have a slightly larger bottle on their top shelf to stand out against the same big boys.

Side note: Lee killer website, I love your setup and hope to visit by the years end. Perhaps we can talk about a few ideas some time.

Logan

Thanks for your input everyone! Logan, I agree the 1L bottle is better, but twice as expensive. If I try to keep my packaging costs down to 10% to 15%, I can't use the bigger bottle. I put my order in today for the 750ml bottle.

Curt

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The idea that the small craft distiller can compete with the major industry corporation is foolish and anyone that follows down that line has much higher chances of failing. The spirits industry nearly completely switched to large scale, continuous stills soon after the Civil War due to one factor: price and cost of production. No one here can compete on the cost efficiencies of a 60,000 gallon capacity continuous column whiskey still.

Also, some states may restrict sales of certain bottle sizes to certain license holders. In New York, only the large high dollar distillers, rectifiers, and wholesalers are allowed to sell in sizes of 1L or larger.

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Also, some states may restrict sales of certain bottle sizes to certain license holders. In New York, only the large high dollar distillers, rectifiers, and wholesalers are allowed to sell in sizes of 1L or larger.

Watching this thread with interest...

But how can this be possible? I'm not questioning the accuracy of your point, just questioning how a law so blatantly prejudicial can possibly exist! What exactly are the criteria for 1L sales in NY??

-C

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From this link at the NY ABC law you can get to the consolidated laws, which as all the info. Paragraph 61 describes distillers licenses. I'd actually forgotten that distillers can only sell bottles of less than one quart. The wholesalers can sell in any legal size.

http://public.leginf...53+&TARGET=VIEW

For Distillery Class A (a big distillery)

It shall also authorize the sale from the licensed premises and from one other location in the state of New York of any liquor whether or not manufactured by such licensee to a wholesale or retail liquor licensee or permittee in sealed containers of not more than one quart each.

For Distillery Class A-1 (a micro distillery)

It shall also authorize the sale from the licensed premises and from one other location in the

state of New York of liquors manufactured by such licensee to a wholesale or retail liquor licensee or

permittee in sealed containers of not more than one quart each.

For Distillery Class D (a Farm distillery)

(i) To manufacture liquor primarily from farm and food products, as defined in subdivision two of section two hundred eighty-two of the agriculture and markets law; (ii) To put such liquor into containers of not more than one quart each, which containers shall then be sealed and to sell such liquor at wholesale, for resale, and to wholesale and retail licensees and permittees; (iii) To sell at retail, for personal use, in such sealed containers; and

Notice it's always not more than one quart each. Wholesaler licenses do not have any such stipulation. So according to these laws, wholesalers can sell liter or more sizes to retail licensees, while distillers cannot. At least within the state of New York. Much of the ABC law in NY is unconstitutional as it deprives citizens of their rights without due process, grants special privileges to other citizens, as well as citizens of other states (no one says a wholesaler must be a resident of NY). But unless you have the millions of dollars necessary to fight the state, the State Liquor Authority, the attorney general (who will certainly side with the state), the wholesalers and their lobbyists and lawyers, and the years it will take to make it's way through the courts, there a snowball's chance in hell of it changing any time soon. And the SLA will immediately threaten to revoke your permit, so whatever little profit you may have will be consumed in lawyers fees.

Chuck, the state isn't setting sizes, as they say at another place in the law that the only sizes that can be sold are the ones listed by the Feds.

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