Agave

[SteelB]

I know this is an old topic , but does anyone know if there is a company out there producing blue agave terrines ? If I can’t get pulp then terrines might help give me some of that extra kick I’m looking for. I plan on doing a batch as soon as my blue agave comes in. I found this thread to be very informative. I hope to be able to produce a spirit that closely resembles my favorite spirit.

[kelbor]

Hey All, Im looking for some sources for Blue Agave Syrup. BSG? Malt Products? 

[Breckenridge Technologies]

On 2/11/2020 at 1:23 PM, kelbor said:

Hey All, Im looking for some sources for Blue Agave Syrup. BSG? Malt Products? 

We represent Nectave which is an excellent source of 100% blue agave nectar. We have pails, drums, and totes in both a light color and raw (dark) agave color. Feel free to shoot me an email if you are still looking for a source: JB@brecktech.com. 

[EZdrinking]

@Tailwinds  @bluefish_dist and @Storm King Distilling Co. it is commonly said among tequila and mezcal distillers that most of the methanol comes off the still during the tails. I am curious if any of you have had this experience when distilling agave syrup?

[Squarrel Barrel]

On 4/17/2020 at 8:39 PM, EZdrinking said:

@Tailwinds  @bluefish_dist and @Storm King Distilling Co. it is commonly said among tequila and mezcal distillers that most of the methanol comes off the still during the tails. I am curious if any of you have had this experience when distilling agave syrup?

That is physically not possible.  There is no way the methanol won't come out sooner than the ethanol.  Maybe they are confusing some other tails component for methanol?

[Eud]

This is an old thread, but for what it's worth a guy on Home Distiller forums did a GC study of where methanol comes out during ethanol collection in a distillation.  His data is posted here:

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79718

[Skaalvenn]

8 hours ago, Minnetonka Dan said:

That is physically not possible.  There is no way the methanol won't come out sooner than the ethanol.  Maybe they are confusing some other tails component for methanol?

Incorrect.

Just look at water with a boiling point of 212, yet we have it coming off through the entire run from heads to tails.

[Silk City Distillers]

Ethanol and Methanol form an azeotrope, no?  Isn't that one of the primary requirements for a denaturant (so that it is not easily removed)?

[JustAndy]

From (PDF) Distillation Techniques in the Fruit Spirits Production (researchgate.net)


Methanol is often the most concentrated compounds in fruit spirits [2, 8, 12, 18, 34]. Methanol is not a by-product of alcohol fermentation but is released very intensively during this process. The methanol was produced during the processing and storage of fermented mash via the effects of enzymes on pectin in the cell wall. Actually, methanol is formed from the demethoxylation of the esterified methoxyl groups in pectin. It is characteristic to fruit brandies, significantly higher than in cereal distillates [34]. Its presence in the spirits is proof of natural origin of fruit spirits because the pectin is a natural constituent of fruits. Concentration of methanol is dependent mainly on the applied technique of the fruit treatment and the distillation and second from the fruit kind and variety. There are different views on methanol impact to flavour of distillates. Such, Ribéreau-Gayon [35], considered the methanol imparts a cooked cabbage odour in spirits, with a threshold of 1200 mg/l. Claus and Berglund [21] wrote that methanol is considered to be a positive flavour constituent in distilled spirits. Nevertheless, most researchers say methanol is colourless volatile compounds with a mild or bland odour and does not affect the flavour of distillates [10, 32, 36, 37]. However, it is one of the most important compounds to control in the spirits due its dangerous effect to human health. In some quantities, the methanol can be dangerous because it is metabolised to formaldehyde and formic acid, which is primarily responsible for most of the toxic effects of methanol [38]. Since it is toxic to humans, the maximum level of methanol is fixed by EU Regulations No. 110/2008. According to these regulations, the concentration of methanol in fruit spirits should not exceed to 12 g/L alcohol 100% (v/v)

The boiling point of methanol is 64.7°C, and it is completely soluble in water. Considering methanol contents in the distillates obtained by different distillation techniques the results reported by several authors are vary. Methanol appears in almost equal concentration in all fractions of distillation due to the formation of azeotropic mixtures [39, 40]. It is really difficult to separate the methanol from the ethanol-water mixture. When low alcohol mixture (like fruit-fermented mash) is distilled in simple pot still, methanol will go out following his solubility in water rather than his boiling point. Methanol is highly soluble in water, therefore, methanol will distill more at the end of distillations, when vapours are richer in water. That means that methanol will accumulate more in the tail fraction [7, 32],during distillation in alembic pot still as it showed in Figure 6 

When high alcohol mixture distills, methanol will evaporate following his boiling point and will be present in the first fraction of the distillation in higher concentration. It appears mainly in the head fractions when distillation column was used [21]. Results of Cortes et al. [32] showed the concentration of the methanol was seven times higher in the case of industrial distillation (means higher concentrates and cleanses of ethanol) than the concentration of methanol in the distillates obtained by simple pot still. The opposite results are given by Arrieta-Garay [20]; there is no difference in methanol content depending on distillation system employed (alembic pot still or packed column distillations), whilst Leaute [16] and Garcia-Llobodanin et al. [27] reported that methanol content was higher in alembic distillates than in the column distillates

[EZdrinking]

Thank you @JustAndy

[Squarrel Barrel]

Yes, excellent citation, JustAndy.

"When low alcohol mixture (like fruit-fermented mash) is distilled in simple pot still, methanol will go out following his solubility in water rather than his boiling point. Methanol is highly soluble in water, therefore, methanol will distill more at the end of distillations, when vapours are richer in water. That means that methanol will accumulate more in the tail fraction [7, 32],during distillation in alembic pot still as it showed in Figure 6 

When high alcohol mixture distills, methanol will evaporate following his boiling point and will be present in the first fraction of the distillation in higher concentration. It appears mainly in the head fractions when distillation column was used [21]."

 

I was definitely thinking about utilizing bubble plates, when of course the traditional tequila method uses pot stills.  I'm glad I bumped this old thread back up.