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Absinthe


Robert Cassell

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By no means would that be my call. I humbly defer everything absinthe to Mr. Gwydion Stone (gstone). I know a bit about it, but nothing compared to his wealth of knowledge.

What I can say is that it's been discussed ad nauseum among the forum members of the Wormwood Society and much debate here would likely be a lot of rehashing without first referencing some of the relevant threads there to see what's already been addressed in past discussions.

Gwydion, *TAG* you're it! :lol:

Cheers,

Paul

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And it's been going for for at least a couple years.

Be aware there is no legal definition/classification for absinthe in the US. That's part of the problem. Even Europe has no real definition which is why there's an ocean of utter shit that pervades the marketplace there. Unfortunately some of that it slowly making it's way here. Fortunately, the makers/marketeers can't hype the thujone, hallucinations and drug-like effect. Unfortunately again, some poor retail owner will buy a case just to have an absinthe on their shelf.

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And it's been going for for at least a couple years.

Be aware there is no legal definition/classification for absinthe in the US. That's part of the problem. Even Europe has no real definition which is why there's an ocean of utter shit that pervades the marketplace there. Unfortunately some of that it slowly making it's way here. Fortunately, the makers/marketeers can't hype the thujone, hallucinations and drug-like effect. Unfortunately again, some poor retail owner will buy a case just to have an absinthe on their shelf.

Sorry PaulG, I meant gstone.......I need a vacation.....

gstone, could you please elaborate on the definitions of the styles you stated? (Pontarlier, Montpellier, Nimes, Besançon, etc.) But before we even get to that point, would you prefer to start with the broad defining characteristics of "what makes it absinthe"?

Again, thank you so much for you help on getting this ball rolling.

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Sorry PaulG, I meant gstone.......I need a vacation.....

gstone, could you please elaborate on the definitions of the styles you stated? (Pontarlier, Montpellier, Nimes, Besançon, etc.) But before we even get to that point, would you prefer to start with the broad defining characteristics of "what makes it absinthe"?

Again, thank you so much for you help on getting this ball rolling.

If microdistillers have t

he desire to keep absinthe traditional, then why in the world would you want to screw up whiskey?

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Paul's praise is humbling; he knows a bit about absinthe and so do Marc and delaware_phoenix. Leopold is a relative newcomer to absinthe, but by all reports he's totally on the right track. I'd personally appreciate their contributions to this thread.

As Paul and DP pointed out, definition has been a subject of great debate—fine-tuning really—at the Wormwood Society forums, but we're all pretty much agreed that the lack of a legal definition on the one hand and a quagmire of misinformation, irresponsible marketing and outright dishonesty on the other hand has put the category in a perilous situation.

Important to the discussion is the difference between identity and quality. Even crappy absinthe can be real absinthe, and even a delicious herbal spirit can be non-absinthe.

The first carved-in-stone rule about absinthe:

Absinthe Must Contain Artemisia absinthium Wormwood as a Principal Ingredient

Absinthe gets it's name from this one species of sagebrush.

The second carved-in-stone rule about absinthe:

It Takes More Than Just Using Artemisia absinthium Wormwood to Qualify as Absinthe.

There have been many spirits, bitters and drinks that contain absinthium wormwood, but are not absinthe.

In a nutshell, the historically-supported basic identity of absinthe, the notorious drink of 19th century France, would be:

1) It must contain Artemisia absinthium wormwood as a principal ingredient. Out of hundreds of Artemisia species, dozens of which are wormwoods, this is the only absinthium. There must be sufficient A.a. that it is readily detectable in the flavor and aroma of the absinthe.

2) The principal flavor characteristic must be derived from anise, whether from aniseed (Pimpinella anisum) or badiane (aka star anise, Illicium verum). Absinthe is in the family of anise spirits: ouzo, tsipouro, arak, raki, rakia, sambuca, anis, anisette, pastis, mastika, etc. You get the idea. Leave out the anise or hide it too deeply, and it's not absinthe any more than ouzo would be ouzo without the anise.

Absinthe is, and always has been, an anise spirit flavored with wormwood and other botanicals. It's not excusable to leave out anise because segments of the population don't care for it but you still want to join the trend.

3) It must be at least 100 proof. It was more commonly found between 130 and 150 proof. 136 proof is the classic.

4) It must not use absinthium wormwood or other dominantly bitter flavorings subsequent to distillation. Absinthe is not a bitters, although it was used as such in mixed drinks.

5) It must not be pre-sweetened. Absinthe is not a liqueur, it's an aperitif. As with coffee or tea, sweetening is a matter of personal preference. The Wormwood Society poll shows that out of over 600 people:

40.3% always use sugar.

23.3% often use sugar.

20.9% seldom use sugar.

15.4% never use sugar.

That's where I'd stop as far as a bare-bones definition. I'd go on to say, also based on history and science, that properly made, superior absinthe:

1) Should also contain sweet fennel seed as a major ingredient as well as anise and wormwood. Note: sourcing the proper fennel can be difficult. Many suppliers readily substitute or mix bitter fennel with sweet.

2) Should derive its coloring directly from the chlorophyll in the leaves of herbs: melissa, hyssop and petite wormwood (Artemisia pontica) being the most common and traditional.

3) Should contain only enough badiane (star anise) to complement the aniseed, not to replace it. Yes, aniseed is more expensive and it takes more of it.

4) Should contain enough anethole (the "licorice" flavor component in anise and fennel) to cause the absinthe to become appreciably cloudy when very cold water is added, but should not become so cloudy as to be completely flat opaque, like milk or chalk. Note: the cloudiness, or louche, as it's called in absinthe circles (pronounced "loosh"), is an indicator of the anise in the absinthe, not a feature to be produced by some other means such as other oils, resins or gums (such as mastika).

5) Should not be a one-trick pony, a one-dimensional, licorice-tasting novelty. It should be well-balanced. An absinthe distiller should be well-acquainted enough with the behavior of all his/her botanicals so as to maximize their harmony in his/her own, unique expression.

The Sublime Secret is Equilibrium.

Thanks for reading this far. For further reading about what constitutes a good absinthe, how to evaluate one, etc., I'll refer you to the Absinthe Review Guide at the Wormwood Society. For research on historic techniques, recipes, etc., including the aforementioned regional styles, please see the 19th century distiller's manuals.

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Leopold is a relative newcomer to absinthe, but by all reports he's totally on the right track. I'd personally appreciate their contributions to this thread.

You're being overly polite in calling me a "relative" newcomer, G. I'm a straight up newcomer by comparison to you, Paul G, Marc, and DP. My contribution would be nothing more than to say listen to Paul G, Marc, Gwydion, and DP when it comes to Absinthe.

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To me absinthe is not like other spirits in so many ways. It's as far from whiskey and gin as wine. It's not meant to be something that you pour into a glass, add a couple ice cubes, and a splash of water or tonic and drink.

To me, if you want to really know what the best absinthes of the Belle Epoque were like, acquire a sample of pre-Ban, nearly 100 year old absinthe that someone stashed away and forgot about. Or obtain some of the better absinthes available from Europe. The WS and FeeVerte sites have lists of recommended vendors.

I've started my nano-distillery to do one thing: make absinthe. Why? Because it's the only spirit I actually care about. I think the history and lore of whiskey is wonderful and fascinating. But it's just not my drink. So I'll let the aficionados of whiskey make whiskey.

I think being passionate about what you make is what distinguishes the micro-distillers from Diageo and Pernod-Richard. Of course, we have to turn a profit or we don't get to keep doing what we're doing. I don't have a profit motive for what I do. I have profit awareness.

So my advice is make what you love. Otherwise, it'll just be a job, and you'll end up hating what you do. jmo.

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We are considering producing absinthe. I have produced small test batches that are good.

Are there places we can send samples to be tested for levels of thojune?

I assume testing requires gas chromatography. There is no litmus paper for testing thujone levels.

How often does the TTB test product?

What are the consequences of exceeding the 10ppm threshold?

Thanks in advance,

Brad Irwin

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The TTB tests you product as part of your formula.

http://www.ttb.gov/ssd/pdf/screening_thujone.pdf

The document says there'll be a more detailed description of the method posted on the website in December 2007, but I didn't see it. Perhaps it's hidden somewhere else.

afaik, the TTB tests your product at the beginning of formula approval process. Presumably they also test from randomly selected product samples taken from retailers. Of course, the TTB may decide differently in the future at their discretion.

Failure in the formula process means you go back to develop a formula that passes. You won't get a COLA without an approved formula. Failure later means your product would be recalled I guess as it would violate the conditions of your COLA and it would be an illegal beverage product.

These are things you should be talking about to your TTB formula specialist.

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  • 2 years later...

I've noticed that Leopold Bros.' absinthe utilizes grape based sprits in their absinthe verte (a very nice product). In the wormwood society's FAQ there is definite mention of maceration in, simply, "neutral spirits." Do the members of this forum have an opinion on grain vs. grape neutral spirits as absinthe base? It certainly seems that grape must be more traditionally French. On the other hand, it also seems that the inherent intensity of the herbal flavors in absinthe would almost completely mask any influence of grape or grain flavors in the final product..........Any thoughts?

p.s. Delaware Phoenix, if you're reading this, I just wanted to let you know that my buddy who manages Maison Premiere in Brooklyn thinks the world of you and your absinthe.... and he's really trying to spread the word.....

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  • 2 weeks later...

The TTB tests you product as part of your formula.

http://www.ttb.gov/s...ing_thujone.pdf

Interesting, in Australia we adopted the EU standard (<35ppm/Thujone.B) as long as the product is sold marked as a bitters. The TTB test protocol is fundamentally flawed, and our experience is is accuracy is no better than +/- 30% FS. The EU test standard is ridiculously complex, and requires high energy GC/MS. Thujone is hard to assay in ethanol, especially in a finished absinthe where many other monoterpene compounds are present. I spent 5 months searching for a lab that would guarantee the accuracy of GC and GC/MS assay, with no sucess. We settled on a traditional reduction assay protocol (vacuum distill 10 litres of spirit, coalesce most of the other organics, esterise the thujone, and assay the ester.) Hard work, but accurate. Petit Wormwwod (tradditional colouring agent in absinthe) WILL false positive on the TTB protocol.

Has anyone in the US ever been successfully prosecuted or charged with excessive levels of Thurjone.B in a commercial product?

Solution: Run human trials on your staff LOL

rich..

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Brenton, yes Maison Premiere is great. Not only do they have a large selection of absinthe, they serve it properly, without flames.

Rich, all of the Artemisia spp. are thujone regulated in the US (as well as tansy, oak moss and a few others, but not sage). So the source of thujone does not matter, simply total thujone, and it doesn't matter whether it's A or B. Sadly the TTB and FDA don't wish to understand absinthe let alone recognize it as a spirit category. But then again, why invest tax dollars on analyzing a spirit whose sales are negligible? So long as no one is reporting the dreaded hallucinations (only in TTB's imagination) or jumping out of windows they seem to have more important things to concern themselves.

Any sort of base spirit is suitable so long as you have a pleasant flavor profile. The grape neutral spirits of today's commerce is not the same grape spirit used in the 19th century.

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. Petit Wormwwod (tradditional colouring agent in absinthe) WILL false positive on the TTB protocol.

My understanding of petite wormwood (Artemisia pontica) is that it does contain thujone, just not in the quantitiy of A.absinthium.

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