Jump to content

Need to purchase boiler


Maschmeier

Recommended Posts

I have a 300 gallon still and a 217 gallon mash tun to heat up. I was told I'll need a boiler that generates 900,000-1,000,000 BTUs by the local boiler rep that I spoke to.

Sounds about right. I was told by a manufacturer that 1,000,000 BTU should heat 600 gallons of mash to 180 F in roughly 1.5 hours. This was for a jacketed mash tun w/ agitation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 300 gallon still and a 217 gallon mash tun to heat up. I was told I'll need a boiler that generates 900,000-1,000,000 BTUs by the local boiler rep that I spoke to.

Probably half that if you are willing to heat each up in sequence, but might be correct if you must heat them up simultaneously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am currently in talks with suppliers for boilers for my operation, 6 million BTU, I would highly suggest that you get many proposals. I have been given estimates ranging from 20k-95k. Research boilers as much as possible, does your estimate include installation?, feed water system?, will you meet building/fire code?, exhaust system?, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably half that if you are willing to heat each up in sequence, but might be correct if you must heat them up simultaneously.

Yes, this is a big part of the equation ..... whether you need to run each seperataly or both at the same time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anybody have a good resource to purchase a boiler (relatively inexpensive)? I need a boiler that creates low pressure steam and can generate 1,000,000 BTU. Thanks!

Were you able to come up with any resources? We are in the same situation and have received a couple quotes, but I would feel better if we had at least a couple more. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (Looking for a NG low-pressure steam bowler, 500-700K BTU)

Thanks!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I ended up getting a couple of quotes but most of them were for 32k-40k not including installation or shipping. I spoke with a local contractor that I've used in the past and he hooked me up with a local heating company who has installed boilers for breweries. The heating company is quoting me 25-30k including installation. They do have one question. The quote was for a boiler with a pump but they think that they may be able to use gravity/steam pressure to circulate the steam and lower the price of the boiler. I need to find a good resource on the topic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suggest talking to the local prison/hospital/manufacturing plants/etc and ask who they use for their boiler work. I've found that recommendations by those people usually turn out well. Here, we have one main guy that does almost everyone. Why? Because they are fair and honest and do good work. We live 1.5 hours from the boiler folks, but usually we can tie in a service call to another customer and split the travel costs. That's really beneficial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

We are in the same situation as Maschmeier but our still is a bit smaller, ~200 gallons. We've been told that we need a boiler rated at between 400k and 600k BTU and have gotten price quotes from $8k to $38k. The $8k was for a bare-bones Weil Mclain EGH125 and the $38K was for a Pearless 64-12. We're having a heck of a time trying to figure out what route to go.

Can others that are using a low-pressure NG (or Propane) boiler please share what boilers they have and about how much it cost for the equipment and how much it was for the installation?

If you would prefer to have an off-line discussion, please contact me at Gordon "at" DryDiggings.com

Thanks!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am going with Triad Boilers out of West Chicago, Illinois. I have been talking to boiler companies for months and Triad was understanding as to what was needed for my operation. Most boiler companies do not understand the needs of a distillery, they will give you a system that is more suited for a large building, or industrial application. Triad is also the manufacture so you will save 20-30%. I am looking at less than 75k for 5 million btu, LP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm an ex mechanical contractor and have purchased and installed dozens of boilers.

I'm also planning a distillery.

Determine what size boiler you need.

In round numbers:

1 BTU will heat 1 pound of water 1 degree F.

1 gallon of water or wash is about 8.35 pounds so you need 8.35 BTU for each gallon per degreeF.

If you heat your wash from 50F to 172F you need (122 x 8.35) 1018 Btu per gallon.

If you have a 150 gallon still, you need (150 x 1018) 152,805 BTU's output from your boiler, to heat the wash from 50F to 172F in one hour. This does not include heat losses to atmosphere from the still equipment.

In addition to sensible heat you need latent heat to vaporize the ethanol. Latent heat of vaporization for ethanol is 364 BTU per pound.

If your wash is 10% ethanol it will take (150 x .10 = 15 gallons) 15 gallons ethanol weighs (6.58 x 15 = 98.7) (98.7x 364) 35,926 BTU to vaporize the ethanol. If your cycle time is 3 hours you need (35,926/3) 11,975 BTUH for vaporization. Someone check my math.

These are rough numbers that will put you in the ballpark. Add losses from the equipment and a safety factor.

Surely still manufactures can give us BTU heat input to operate their equipment? If they can't i can measure and calculate the losses if I had access to an operating still or two.

Write a boiler specification and put it out for bids. I would be happy to assist anyone or everyone by writing a standard specification for distillers to use when buying boilers. We would all benefit from a set of standard specifications to use when budgeting and purchasing all the equipment for a distillery. Anyone interested?

I also have some friends that wholesale boilers that could offer input.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surely still manufactures can give us BTU heat input to operate their equipment? If they can't i can measure and calculate the losses if I had access to an operating still or two.

Write a boiler specification and put it out for bids. I would be happy to assist anyone or everyone by writing a standard specification for distillers to use when buying boilers. We would all benefit from a set of standard specifications to use when budgeting and purchasing all the equipment for a distillery. Anyone interested?

I also have some friends that wholesale boilers that could offer input.

Standard specs would be great. Contractors up here seem to have a hard time wrapping their heads around the needs of a distillery (so do I).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am getting my steam generator from Steve Cage at Artisan Still Design. Not sure this is a business he is generally pushing, but he is providing a turn key solution for me that includes the properly sized steam generator. I have a 600 gallon still and my BTU rating is much lower than the 1M, however. Everything should get fired up soon, so I will let you know if it works out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the East Coast, I can highly recommend Eric Hobbs from Weeks-Williams-Devore in Matthews, NC. I spoke with many companies. He actually asked questions, did the math and then made a recommendation. All of the others just asked what size we wanted. If you are having some boiler questions, as it seems most of us do, give him a call.

By the way, TexasGrand, that was a great post. Thanks for your expertise.

Todd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In addition to sensible heat you need latent heat to vaporize the ethanol. Latent heat of vaporization for ethanol is 364 BTU per pound.

If your wash is 10% ethanol it will take (150 x .10 = 15 gallons) 15 gallons ethanol weighs (6.58 x 15 = 98.7) (98.7x 364) 35,926 BTU to vaporize the ethanol. If your cycle time is 3 hours you need (35,926/3) 11,975 BTUH for vaporization. Someone check my math.

TexasGrand,

Thanks for your comments. Question: wouldn't you multiply by 3 here instead of dividing by 3?? I have no idea what I am talking about, but am trying to figure things out. It would be great to talk to you about putting some specs together. can you contact me at gordon@drydiggings.com?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gordon

Sending you my email. In the still example it would take more than an hour to vaporize the ethanol so I just used 3 hours as an example. I divided the total "latent heat of vaporization" needed by 3 hours. The time it takes to run a full cycle is determined by the still, not the boiler. This is a simplified theoretical discussion and not an actual boiler sizing exercise.

The example is for one evaporation/condensing cycle. If you had a column with 5 plates 100% efficient, you theoretically would need 5 times the latent heat because each plate would condense and then re-vaporize the ethanol/water vapor.

Calculations get you in the ballpark, but you need to size a boiler on actual tests of the still or tests of a similar still. That information should come from the still manufacturer.

I would like to put together a spreadsheet with the variables for boiler selection, but I need input from a knowledgeable still manufacturer. There may be software available, used by the petrochemical industry

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are some articles about sizing steam kettles and thought they might be useful. For my future 320 Gallon still filled 75%(240Gallons) will need, at a minimum, 10 HP or 500000 BTU and recommended 20 HP or 1000000 BTU. My dad and uncle are retired steamfitters so I've got them installing it when the time comes.

www.blodgett.com/literature/manuals/steam/boiler-sizing-guide.pdf

and another good doc

http://www.americanpacificboiler.com/images/Lattner_Boiler_Company_-_Steam_Jacketed_Kettles.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I'd be interested in some assistance in sizing a boiler for a 300 gallon still. I'm familiar with the equations for raising the liquid up to boiling, but getting into the latent heat of vaporization gets me a little lost. Are the calculations that TexasGrand put together what I should go off?

I gave WWD a call, and they didn't seem super helpful. But, I'm also looking for a fuel oil boiler, as we'll be burning biodiesel. Does anyone have a fuel oil boiler that they like in the 250k BTU/hr range?

thanks,

chjris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...