Pot Still

[sweetT14]

I might be too much of a novice to be posting on this forum but I have a quick question

Why not just run a pot still with a worm condenser (yes that simple), and take the large heads and tails cut and savor that flavor rather than distill multiple times and trade the flavor for purity or high proof.

What is the other benefit to running these multi-plate stills and continuous stills, dephlegmators, and whatnot. Cant you just run a pot still with a single worm condenser, take the huge heads and tails cut and add them to you next run? or does that just cause an even larger cut of heads and tails for the next run?

I would think it actually gives more of a heart in the second run but with the added benefit of more flavor.

[Mash]

Time= Money,

Kinda like asking a baker "Why not just use a easy-bake oven rather than a Vulcan stone lined, dual fuel, computer controlled ......."

Depends what you want, what you can afford and what your making.

[fldme]

What you are talking about is exactly what a continuous whiskey still does, but no worry with heads and tails cuts.

[Dan P.]

SweetT14, I think most people are scared of this. Too much responsibility in making cuts, not enough know-how. Also, it seems that the German hybrid stills are sold very heavily to new distillers in the US, and people like the idea of a "turn-key" operation where you just type in the numbers and away you go.

Whether or not a pot still makes better whiskey or not is entirely debatable, and largely irrelevant. What pot stills (real pot stills) do have is cultural cache, aka USP, which is why people claim to use them, even though what they actually use is a hybrid still.

The most highly valued spirits in the world, single malt Scotch and Cognac, are both legally only made in pot stills. The most popular spirits in the world are made in column stills. In business terms it really makes little difference; either stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap, or get a premium price for a premium product.

Where it does make a difference is when you are trying to sell single malt moonshine, or trying to convince people that you are making "craft" whiskey on a continuous still, because the greatest hurdle is branding and marketing.

[HedgeBird]

Why not just run a pot still with a worm condenser (yes that simple), and take the large heads and tails cut and savor that flavor rather than distill multiple times and trade the flavor for purity or high proof.

Unless you are running a mash with a crazy high alcohol content, you cant really get a high enough proof product out of a simple pot still in a single distillation.

One solution is to double distill. Read these:

http://homedistiller.org/distill/dtw/double

http://homedistiller.org/distill/dtw/strip

and buy this book http://www.amazon.com/Making-Pure-Corn-Whiskey-Professional/dp/0968629210/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389711023&sr=8-1&keywords=ian+smiley

Another solution is to add a thumper, or "doubler". Read this:

http://homedistiller.org/distill/dtw/use_pot

Or, you use multi-plate stills and continuous stills, dephlegmators, and whatnot...

Cheers!

[Dan P.]

and buy this book http://www.amazon.com/Making-Pure-Corn-Whiskey-Professional/dp/0968629210/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389711023&sr=8-1&keywords=ian+smiley

In that book the author makes the explicit statement that pot stills are unsuitable for making whiskey, so without wanting to be contrary I will offer my "disrecommendation" for that book, given the topic of this post.

[TuftedTurtle]

Sweet,

You've got some good answers. I'm in favor of using a pot still with thumpers, but I'm not against other's using hybrid stills. It's kind of a make what you want kind of thing. Also, the newer hybrid stills are more efficient. Between finding what product to make and finding what cost a business owner can/will except will determine what kind of still they use.

I'm in the phase where I'm researching my recipe (for rum) and what kind of equipment to use. I'd love to go Pot-still double thumper, but I'm not against investigating a plated column. Not sure where you are in your research, but I recommend reading all of the home distiller forums. Tons of good information on the types of stills and what kind of flavors you can expect.

Cheers,

TuftedTurtle

[HedgeBird]

Its true that Smiley makes a distinction between a "pot still" (that he says is no good) and a true "whiskey still" (a still with a gooseneck, but non fractioning) that I do not fully understand. Most people just use the generic term "pot still" for anything without a column. I think most people on this forum would call the still depicted on the cover of the book a "pot still" but apparently Smiley wants to call it a "whiskey still". If that is your only gripe with the book it would seem to be one of only semantics and I would argue not to throw out the baby with the bath water!

[Dan P.]

Its true that Smiley makes a distinction between a "pot still" (that he says is no good) and a true "whiskey still" (a still with a gooseneck, but non fractioning) that I do not fully understand. Most people just use the generic term "pot still" for anything without a column. I think most people on this forum would call the still depicted on the cover of the book a "pot still" but apparently Smiley wants to call it a "whiskey still". If that is your only gripe with the book it would seem to be one of only semantics and I would argue not to throw out the baby with the bath water!

It's not that great a book anyway, and Smiley's distinction between pot still and whiskey still is entirely specious. The picture on the cover illustrates perfectly the cultural cache that pot stills have, though.

[sweetT14]

Ok I see. I guess I would rather have more flavorful shine that I don't have to cut to make drinkable. Distill it, throw out the foreshots, and bottle the rest.

A corn whiskey recipe that I have been working to refine does call for more barley than usual, that may be the reason I would rather run it in a simple pot still. I enjoy a hint of scotchy flavor, and I feel I loose that when I distill multiple times.

I could be doing something wrong on my second distillation though.

thanks for the info

[Artisan Still Design]

I love potstill distilled whiskey, simple potstill and a double run makes some excellent product.

so why do so many people use a hybrid still for whiskey then? because the 4 plate column gives the effect of a full second distillation, creating the equivalent of a double distillation in a single pass.

so in a word, Time.

the largest expense of running a distillery, is labor.

[sweetT14]

With that being said, why would someone run a pot still for a stripping run, and then use a column still with multiple plates for their spirit run. Is it simply preference?

Also, everyone says these multiple plate columns allow for easier separation between heads, hearts, and tails. I have no experience with a column still, but by looking at designs Im assuming the heavier chemical liquids (unwanted product) condense out of the distillation process at each plate, causing only the ethanol to run through the main condenser into finish product. Am I right in thinking that?

Sorry I know I sound very amateur but all the websites and research I have done doesn't fully explain the process of the column stills. And I only have experience with pot stills.

[Artisan Still Design]

preference, time, style of product they want to produce.

you can "detune" a 4 plate to act like a potstill but with the ability to make tighter cuts.

[Artisan Still Design]

And I only have experience with pot stills...

it is easier for most people to learn to distill in a column still, the ability to make good cuts on a potstill is a hard won skill that most don't have the patience for.

[sweetT14]

I may need to try a column still then. I've always thought column stills were for vodka, to get the neutral taste. like the more plates the higher proof and less taste, but vodka is very smooth. So the art of craft distilling has to be finding that happy medium between losing taste and creating a smooth cleaner product.

[fldme]

SweetT14, I think most people are scared of this. Too much responsibility in making cuts, not enough know-how. Also, it seems that the German hybrid stills are sold very heavily to new distillers in the US, and people like the idea of a "turn-key" operation where you just type in the numbers and away you go.

Whether or not a pot still makes better whiskey or not is entirely debatable, and largely irrelevant. What pot stills (real pot stills) do have is cultural cache, aka USP, which is why people claim to use them, even though what they actually use is a hybrid still.

The most highly valued spirits in the world, single malt Scotch and Cognac, are both legally only made in pot stills. The most popular spirits in the world are made in column stills. In business terms it really makes little difference; either stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap, or get a premium price for a premium product.

Where it does make a difference is when you are trying to sell single malt moonshine, or trying to convince people that you are making "craft" whiskey on a continuous still, because the greatest hurdle is branding and marketing.

Sir, are you saying craft whiskey cannot be made on a continuous still?

[Dan P.]

Sir, are you saying craft whiskey cannot be made on a continuous still?

Seems like it.

[sweetT14]

Well I can see his point....

I see it like the craft distilling industry would benefit from using pot stills only. To keep the flavor, since craft distilling should be about Flavor, just like craft beer is. How is your whiskey going to stand out from the big dogs if you are distilling all the flavor away and aging it in barrels just like them. I feel a pot still with a few plates is just enough for a craft distiller but that's just my opinion.

[Dan P.]

There may be legal distinctions for what constitutes "craft" when it comes to distilleries in some states, I don't know.

But all things being equal, a definition of the term "craft" is a pretty tricky one to pin down. Well, let's say it's pretty much impossible to pin down.

However, in my own opinion it would be hard to sell a product to the public as "craft" if the public knew it is made using a computerized and automated process, with no know-how involved beyond following the instructions in a manual. And I think the proof of that is how the cultural icon of the pot still is used for branding purposes by various distilleries who don't actually use pot stills.

However, for business purposes, one does what one must, and as long as no one gets hurt, that's fine.

[Dan P.]

I feel a pot still with a few plates is just enough for a craft distiller but that's just my opinion.

See, I wouldn't really say a column with plates qualifies as a pot still.

It seems that the definition of pot still gets pushed back further and further. Everyone wants to say they use one, but not everybody actually wants to use one. I would be interested in the economics of pot still vs. column. Imagine if there were a legal definition of pot still introduced? Would the economic paradigm shift? How long will it be before a continuous still is being called a pot still? A "hybrid pot still"!

[Artisan Still Design]

Sir, are you saying craft whiskey cannot be made on a continuous still?

now this is my personal opinion, most of my favorite bourbons are made on continuous stills. while some may use the term "Craft" in their marketing, I believe they are too big to call themselves craft.

however there are very few craft distilleries that have continuous (production) distillation systems, because no one is marketing such a still currently.

[sweetT14]

I agree Dan, and I shouldn't use the term "pot still" so lightly. If it has a column, it shouldn't be called a pot still. I should refer to it as a column still, hybrid, or whatnot.

[bluestar]

To get back to the original question: many pot stills don't have enough reflux to provide sufficient fractionation during a run without running the still at an extremely low rate, and perhaps not even then. Read up on the basics of distillation, paying special attention to the process of fractionation, to understand how different stills and different modes of operation of those stills will affect the ability to use "cuts" to control flavor and aroma profile. Also, to get good separation near the head cut, you need to distill to a higher proof at the start of the run. I am not saying you can't get a good product without doing this, just that you can't get the same product you might be able to get with a different still, or doing multiple runs, etc.

[sweetT14]

Yes Dan I agree, sorry I shouldn't just throw around the term Pot Still for everything.

[fldme]

now this is my personal opinion, most of my favorite bourbons are made on continuous stills. while some may use the term "Craft" in their marketing, I believe they are too big to call themselves craft.

however there are very few craft distilleries that have continuous (production) distillation systems, because no one is marketing such a still currently.

Vendome is marketing just such a still. For craft distilleries. And from my experience, all of the large distilleries I have been to, know the people running them, they are just as craft if not more so than so called craft distilleries.