kckadi Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I'm looking at using some used 330 gallon 'food grade' IBC's for fermenting. A local seller has used ones from a soda factory that had food grade phosphoric acid in them. The IBC's have been triple rinse and appear very clean. Has anyone had experience using used IBC's? Has anyone had issues during fermentation caused by prior contents, regardless of how thoroughly they may of been cleaned? I don't think there will be an issue but want to ask the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorghumrunner Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 We're using reconditioned IBC's, with new bottles. I think I paid about $150 each for them. They work well, certainly aren't perfect for fermentation, but the price makes it worth the difficulty. Seems like food grade acid would not pose a problem for later uses, as long as there isn't a strong residual smell. Clean them out with a caustic and sanitize before use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoscape Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 We use the 275gal. totes for fermenting. We get them cheap, $75 a pop, so you can't beat the price. They work great for us. You just have to heat the room to hit your temp... not the best solution but it works. We cut a big hole in the top for easy access(cleaning) and then adhere closed cell pipe insulation around the cut out lid so it will make a low grade seal. You'll want a food grade Banjo cam lever coupling for the bottom valve, this will allow you to put a sanitary fitting on it and pump away. Sure would like a jacketed ferm tank with heat/cool pump... one can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 WOW. This post is very illuminating. It seems worth a try considering Glacier tanks this size are about $5000. http://www.glaciertanks.com/Conical_Fermenters-15_BBL_473GL_1_790L_Conical_Fermenter.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetT14 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 What about using IBC tanks for catching the distillate and to store for a few days before bottling? I have read some people say it is ok, and others say that the higher proof spirits will dissolve the plastic. I know ethanol is a solvent but if the IBC tank is food grade it should be safe right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoscape Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Sweet, some swear against plastic coming in contact with your spirit. But, 190 proof GNS comes in HDPE totes/barrels... so... Personally, I only let the spirit from the still hit glass or stainless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckadi Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm planning on using stainless tanks for spirit storage but I have seen a couple of other distilleries using IBC for spirit storage. I think its just a matter of using brand new ones that are rated for alcohol. I don't think I would use a used one for storage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natrat Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Sweet, some swear against plastic coming in contact with your spirit. But, 190 proof GNS comes in HDPE totes/barrels... so... Personally, I only let the spirit from the still hit glass or stainless. Cuz there's no plastic in your gaskets or ball valves, huh? I'm kidding...but at the temperatures we use, the plastic that is in totes is inert. And no one worries about their corks or cap liners...much. Totes work well for fermentation, but controlling their temp can be tough. If you can make a small room for your fermentations and keep that climate controlled, that's probably the most economical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 HDPE is fine to collect spirits in. I contacted my Ibc manufaturer and got their rep for my state/region. He sent me the conversion coupler for my tank to can fittings that just had a foam gasket and a security screw to double make sure it doesn't back out. I then went from plastic cam (6.00 Roughly) to cam my cam hose fitting, also from them, and now have a dedicated IBC hose. I can then forklift it up and gravity feed it. You can use immersion heaters to warm up the volume. Nothing else will really do much to that volume of liquid in an IBC container. Power blankets are too expensive but work for my honey barrels. You could maybe use a water heater on demand, but at some poinId be concerned about clean in place issues building up. Mine is digital and fully adjustable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kckadi Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 What type/brand of immersion heaters are you using with your IBC's? I was thinking of just wrapping them in plain retail electric blanket(on a GFI circuit) for fermenter temp control. I've priced heater blankets made specifically for IBC's and the prices are ridiculously high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGDM1967 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I just purchased two of these plastic 275 gallon totes that I plan to use at least 1 of for fermenting. If I could ask, beyond temperature control, are there any modifications required, ie: venting? As well, what would be the minimum wash volume that I could ferment in this unit? Sorry for the possibly stupid questions, I am very new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorghumrunner Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I believe it's pretty common to do open fermenting for most mashes. That being said, if you wanted to put an airlock on the tote, you can remove the 2" bung, get a 2"mpt thread to PVC slip fitting, and from your local brewing/winemaking store get a drilled bung and airlock to put in the 2" slip fitting. I think that you could ferment 100 gallons, but you wouldn't want to store a fermented mash with that much airspace for any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGDM1967 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks Sorghrumrunner, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Yeah, put a slip union on the top and then you can remove the stem hard plumbed into a bucket of water without too much trouble. You could break it into pieces and set it in cleaner to keep it from contaminating future runs. The bigger pipe the better BC is could get violent enough to puke and you need plenty of vent or it it syphon if it gets plugged up. Remember to only fill it up 70%. You will probably want to move it to a sealed container more airtight afterwards if storing it very long or it needs to cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Always wedge it at a greater angle to clean it, they don't drain amazingly, a conical fermenter is much more ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 You could also gas it off with nitrogen very slowly, when after a few minutes it fills the space, turn if off, and stick a BBQ lighter in the tank, if it lights and burns the there is still oxygen to purge, if not, then you are set and have a layer of nitrogen laying over the liquid displacing the oxygen so it is protected for rroughly 3 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorghumrunner Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 You could also gas it off with nitrogen very slowly, when after a few minutes it fills the space, turn if off, and stick a BBQ lighter in the tank, if it lights and burns the there is still oxygen to purge, if not, then you are set and have a layer of nitrogen laying over the liquid displacing the oxygen so it is protected for rroughly 3 weeks. would CO2 also be appropriate for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fldme Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 WOW. This post is very illuminating. It seems worth a try considering Glacier tanks this size are about $5000. http://www.glaciertanks.com/Conical_Fermenters-15_BBL_473GL_1_790L_Conical_Fermenter.html They have some very nice open top fermenters I see. Those look very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Call stout tanks, you'll end up with much better customer service. John is very nice and helpful. I can't say that about glacier, not sure what the situation is there but the guy I talked to was less than helpful. They were also out of everything. not much to say about them in a positive way. They give chinese equipment a bad name. In my opinion they are selling things that are not engineered by themselves or given any real thought for proper application, AT ALL. So, for co2 or any other inert blanketing gas, it will be heavier than oxygen and just push it out if not pushed into the tank and then back out again, ie, slowly introduced to the tank and not with such force it literally bounces back out, so people tend to fill up tanks with blanketing nitrogen or argon, not co2 because they are making still products, they don't want it getting fizzy. Beer on the other hand can be be gas purged, both are doing the same thing. The lighter will not light without oxygen, no matter the gas used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ryan at silver state stainless is pretty helpful with making tanks in all sizes. I talked to him for some time before running into him at Siebel. He's very helpful, their prices are maybe not the cheapest, like with chinese equipment but you'll have a fully operational piece of equipment and without the lead time of the other big guys like jvnw and newlands, vendome, mueller, etc. I know of 2 good chinese sources if you are ordering enough to suffice a 4000.00 shipping cost. Most mash tuns would save money if they are big enough, over 15 bbl. MEC Brew and China Beer / HGM, HGM makes stuff for premier stainless, and possibly stout, I've never asked him but they look the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorghumrunner Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 So, for co2 or any other inert blanketing gas, it will be heavier than oxygen and just push it out if not pushed into the tank and then back out again, ie, slowly introduced to the tank and not with such force it literally bounces back out, so people tend to fill up tanks with blanketing nitrogen or argon, not co2 because they are making still products, they don't want it getting fizzy. Beer on the other hand can be be gas purged, both are doing the same thing. The lighter will not light without oxygen, no matter the gas used. Thanks, Mendo. Though I was readings his article which recommends argon or co2 over nitrogen: http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/inertgas.pdf Seems reasonable at because nitrogen is lighter than air it could easily leak out of an IBC tote fermenter. And, since we're blanketing mash here, it wouldn't matter much to me if there was some absorption of co2 into the mash. Our primary product is fortified wine, so we will need to do some blanketing of those tanks and especially our oak barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelbor Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 We use Argon at our winery....its not the safest of gases but is the best at displacing air. Just don't breath it. It is so heavy that it can and will fill your lungs and you will asphyxiate before you can get it out. We kid around about have a pair of those gravity boots near the eyewash station in case of accidental inhalation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Yep, nitrogen is safer, and less expensive I believe. Usually people top off with nitrogen and bottle with argon. Its usually used to 'finish' the wine. Its used both ways but def. Co2 is an odd ball in the winery. More wine/beer is aimed at hobbiest not commercial applications. They have really good help articles but not always as usefully applied to larger scale operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefedgardo Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Hello. Does any one know, where I can find those big 250 or 275 gallons Blue tanks? I believe they have a distributor here in the USA. Thank you for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mendodistilling Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 yes, call koval in chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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