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grehorst

Supplier reviews not welcome on ADIforums.com

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Reviews are a funny thing..I have dealt with thousands of customers and hundreds of manufacturers in my time and there are some that are a joy to work with, some you can take or leave (mostly dread the phone call from) and those you won't talk to fro all the tea in China.

And many have the same feelings about you. Over the years you gravitate to the first as much as possible (time is short!). I generally have had some very good experiences with this forum and not many "snipers" or too many "know it alls). It gets old to see some axes being ground to the handle, for sure.

On the other hand, I have had heard and talked to some that have been truly been lead down the garden path or got given proper information by manufacturers that probably couldn't be gotten away with except for the "boom".

I try to be as generic as possible with advice and hope to save some a few bucks on their start ups.

What goes around usually comes around, but sometimes you have to live a looong time to see it!!

In the case of a serious gripe with a manufacturer, I would advise someone ( moderator?) give the manufacturer a chance to respond. Some care, some truly don't, especially if they are a large company.

At this point I see some outfits trying to make a quick buck by copying a design because lead times from "usual suspects" getting overwhelmed. Only thing I can say is go see their installations (more than one, since one may have been a "gift" to get an installation), and remember- if their price is too good, always suspect.

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Simple question, if we don't police our own industry, who will?

I've been a part of the professional building community and the professional audio industry, in both these industries it has been other members who have been instrumental in keeping the lines of information open and honest.

If negative reviews are not allowed then positive ones shouldn't be allowed either... but what does that really get us?

I understand the dilemma, but some really good suggestions have been made to minimize possible abuse. I don't understand where the problem lies in an open format discussion?

btw, Thank you for a wonderful forum.

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StonesRyan    0

Censoring content by deleting only negative reviews seems to imply that a supplier's reputation is of greater importance than our access to reliable information. And as it now stands, if I were a questionable supplier I'd be pleased to know that in the ADI forums I'm protected from accountability, as there are no repercussions for bad business practices since I'll be shielded by your vague nonexistent forum policy that prohibits any negative review of my business.

Duly noted.

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As a vendor myself, like Steve I believe that it is very important that people be allowed to review vendors on this forum no matter whether it be positive or negative reviews. A few weeks ago I saw a negative review of a very small equipment vendor on this forum. Basically the reviewer said that he purchased a controller from this vendor and he received some old wire in a box. About a year ago I purchased a controller for one of my customers from this same small vendor and it was basically junk, with loose wires etc and it would not work. When I asked to return it, the guy said F you and hung up on me. I had a controller built for my customer at a local UL listed shop which cost me twice the amount that I had charged my customer, but a deal is a deal. This vendor is a thief and everyone should know about him so that he does not rip anyone else off. The bad review of this vendor has been removed now, which leaves everyone who does not know about this thief at his mercy. As a vendor I would like to ask you to please reconsider your policy on this matter. If anyone would like to know the thief's name please email me privately.

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I'm wondering if there's been any clarification on this issue. I expect that Guy and Bill spoke at the ADI Conference, has this policy been made official?

I remain bothered by it and what it seems to say about ADI's interest in gaining $$$ memberships rather than being a supportive industry group.

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I was not able to speak with bill on this issue, however, this forum has become a main point of contact for my company, so If I am spending dollars on sponsoring ADI, this is where I want those sponsorship dollars to go.

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Joe Hell    0

I am new to this forum but I am not new to forums. I was an administrator on the worlds largest archery related forum (currently 319,323 members) for 7 years. In addition I worked at the parent company as head of quality control and manager of customer service. Our company welcomed the bad reviews because it gave us an opportunity to step up as a manufacturer and show the world how we handled issues and took care of our customers....hell, we would go above and beyond just to one-up our rivals. This outlook was shared by our direct and indirect competitors alike. Sure there were times when 'trolls' would come on and bash a manufacturer but most of the time their motives were clear and the forum members put them in their place. Sharing our good and bad experiences with each other is the best way to grow the industry and strengthen our relationships with our peers. Just my opinion.

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grehorst    3

As I previously pointed out;

I do not have the time to fairly police reviews. I know many have great ideas on how to do this, but they don't address the time issue. The ADI cannot devote a full time person (or more) to investigate claims about suppliers.

Other sites exist for reviewing businesses. Just the other day someone decided to give a bad review of a supplier. A link was posted to Yelp reviews for the supplier. Use Yelp.

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johnrobben    0

I agree with you on the issue of time- Why do they have to be policed?

Short of vulgar or offensive language, people should be allowed to say what they have to say, good or bad. If someone posed something negative, it's here for everyone to read and reply- including the supplier/vendor.

If I post: "I paid Vendor A $1k for an item and never received it." That vendor can see that and respond: " That item was sent, and delivery confirmation said it was delivered on 4/1/14".

Which on is telling the truth? Personally I'd side with the vendor, unless there were 7 reviews that said the same thing. It's simple. We are big boys and girls. We should be allowed to have ALL the information to make decisions. Period.

We NEED this information to make informed decisions. People get negative (and positive reviews) on things like Yelp, Google, Amazon, Ebay. It's up to a supplier/vendor to police itself on these issues NOT an 'open' forum administrator. There is no good reason for a negative review to be deleted, except for above (vulgar, etc..)

How about make one forum area titled "supplier/vendor reviews" ?? That is where all reviews can be posted. Good and bad. Makes it easy for the consumer to find AND the vendor to find.

thanks for your time.

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Blackheart    10

Guy: we love you, man. This thing you did was monumental.

Perhaps it's time that the ADI board and leadership deal with this issue (the forum, not just this policy in question).

That organization takes ownership of this board as their own territory (hell, it's the top banner of this page), so they need to step up and monitor, maintain, improve this space for the good of the membership. Making Guy the flame target of this concern and issue is irresponsible of them, and I'm disappointed the leadership hasn't taken responsibility of this property sooner.

Members pay dues, sponsors pay monies too; and as Steven mentioned, this board is easily the most visible and consumed product of the ADI. ADI should apply its resources accordingly.

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mission5    0

As a newbie, I can't tell you the invaluable information and knowledge I have acquire from this forum, and vendor reviews good or bad should be permitted. I do not go to a new restaurant without reading the reviews and ratings on Yelp, I do not buy a product on Amazon without reading ratings and reviews, I do not stay in a hotel without reading the ratings and reviews on Tripadvisor, yet if I am going to spend thousands or 100s of thousands dollars I cannot read ratings or reviews on the most centalized forum for craft distilling?

I am more than surprised that the forum is not run by the ADI, compensated by the ADI and what appears to be managed by one individual. Seems unfair, and a little deceptive with the ADI banner across the top of the forum sight. If ADI is to be the voice and advocate for the industry, I agree with Blackheart on his long term solution proposal.

In the short run, I am sure there are several advanced members who would more than volunteer their time to act as moderators, relieving the sole burden of Guy. In fact, I am sure that if a dedicated area was put on the forum just for vendor reviews, a couple two three moderators could more than police just that section. Also, it would make it easy for those vendors who care to monitor their performance and respond to the reviews posted.

I would be the first to contribute to the overhead cost of managing this growing forum. A simply donate now paypal button on the forum might make sense. While the longer term direction is addressed.

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NorthStar    1

Our product comes out in a couple weeks; we would not have made it this far but for the information and contacts we gained through this forum. I am, like most new folks, a parasitic user; though I hope to give back where I can.

It occurs to me that a fundamental problem here is that the forum is both very successful and improperly placed. As subscribers grow, the forum will become too difficult to manage--certainly to difficult for one person. And there is the embedded problem: only one person (or very few) have both the responsibility and the power to manage the forum. The response to this move is overwhelmingly negative. If this were a democracy, the policy would be reversed. But it is not a democracy; it is the product of one man's work and thus is his to dispose of as he sees fit.

I come here to find the right tool for the job and advice on how to use it. Removing reviews kills half of the utility. I don't think that segmenting reviews out to a yelp or similar site will accomplish the same goal; we are all busy and this forum is an efficient delivery of damn near everything. That said, who are we to insist that Guy make a change? Are we not guests on his forum? I see two options:

1. Deal with it

2. Take our marbles elsewhere/buy it.

If we do option 2, we might want to solve the democracy thing, that is, we might want a forum that is run by an entity that is directed by a membership of DSPs, not a for profit company or one tired man. I don't know of an ACDA forum, but perhaps that is what is needed (not a member of ACDA and I express no opinion on them. My understanding is that they are member directed). Otherwise, there needs to be some other forum that, in my mind serves the combined purposes of letting people know about the equipment out there and sharing tips/experience/etc about how to survive in this business.

Talk is cheapest when the story is good right? We are willing to put up some money for the forum, we are also willing to help with other tasks as needed, but we will not give money to a forum or organization that is not responsive to the community it serves. Perhaps the thing to do is buy the thing and wrap it into a non-profit member organization. If we aren't willing to take that step and do the work Guy has been doing, I think we should hush up and do as Guy says.

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EZdrinking    19

Please be aware that this policy created by the original forum administrator is no longer in effect. See new terms of service here 

 

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