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Get your Federal Permit? How long did it take?


grehorst

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Congrats!

October 8th here. I don't know what the process the TTB uses to divide up/sort applications but it's frustrating to say the least. We finally got a list of minor corrections needed last week so hopefully it's soon. I had hoped that being a very simple operation would be quick, but it took the better part of 120 days before our application was even looked at.

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134 days and we have our federal permit.

It's amazing how fast things can move when you create a stink. Went from the agent needing a little extra information to being approved within minutes.

If I had to do it all over again I'd probably hire a consultant--especially one who's been in the business for a long time. I'm not saying it happens, but there's probably a reason for some applications taking 50 days to be approved and others take 120 days before they are even looked at.

There was nothing really wrong with the application, just a couple very minor issues and a suggestion to alter something because the TTB agent said it could come in handy.

No issues at all with the bond, I thank Aaron "InsuranceMan" Linden for his work as I guess the bond causes issues with most applications.

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Tyson,

First and foremost, congrats on finally getting your approval. I know it has been a long journey up to this point. In looking back at our conversations alone, it has been almost a year since we started on this together. I am just very happy that you are now well on your way and I cannot wait to watch as you continue to grow and move forward. Thank you as well for allowing me to assist you with your bond and insurance, it has truly been my pleasure and honor to be associated with you. Raise a glass and celebrate man, you have earned it!

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Just received approval today (4/30), submitted Dec. 5th (repeal day!). 146 Days.

Took a little bit of squeaking to get our wheel greased, but after a few extra pieces of info and some back and forth it went through. I will say they are slow, but very nice to work with at the TTB.

Just a heads up, they have recently changed how your bond must appear and not all bond companies are aware of the changes. Simple correction, but cost a a few days with back and forth through our insurance company.

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  • 3 weeks later...

What change to how the bond must appear? I submit a lot of applications and I've not heard of any change in the entries. I'd be interested to know the change for which they asked?.

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A bit late to the party, but we submitted February 19th and got approval April 22nd, just about 2 months total. We are now scrambling to finish the still etc since this was faster than expected, but overall the process was great and we only had one "round" of revisions which was basically just agreeing to change suggestions by the TTB officer and submitting some edits, after that point was only about a week until final approval. My word of advice, we paid a lawyer about $1500 to review our application after we wrote it, they made some edits and suggestions and gave us some pointers. It did help that one person in the law firm used to work for TTB, but things went smooth and it was a lot cheaper than paying a lawyer to do it all for you, it still cut our approval time in half.

Also, if anyone is then planning on a transfer in bond, that took 3 days to reach "recommend manager approval" then another week to actually get approved. Just FYI :)

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We received our approval today after submitting at the end of November - 6 month wait. We did not hire an attorney but I believe if we had or had hired an attorney to review our application the process would have gone faster.

Much thanks to Aaron "InsuranceMan" for his assistance and advice through the process!

Redmont Distilling Company is Birmingham, Alabama's first distillery since prohibition.

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  • 3 weeks later...

DSP-NY-21066 Finally approved! Submitted 12/13/14 approved today 6/8/15. So many issues with the bond, but we got it. Now the long nights and fun begin. Thanks for all the help through this forum.

Phil French

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  • 2 months later...

I've not weighed in here. I'll offer some general comments. I think they can put things into a perspective of use.

Here is what I tell clients. I know what TTB wants, so we can prepare good applications that should pass muster. Every word of that is true. So is every word of this - I still can't guarantee you that an application I prepare and submit will beat the published averages (right now that is 114 days in July, down from 128 in June).

Fact set 1 - applications that I submit for clients look remarkably the same, except for the details of financing and statements of production procedure, and even those fall into patterns. Further, even though the premises differ a great deal, the descriptions TTB requires follows a format. Next, it takes about 15 minutes of head banging to figure out bond amounts and if you go through an agent who knows what is required, as I do, bonds should not be a problem. I repeat, the applications are remarkable similar.

Fact set 2 - Even though the applications I submit look very similar and satisfy TTB's requirements, and even though the bonds are good - all the right powers of attorney, boxes checked, etc -, the time to approval varies quite a bit. I don't want to turn this into an ad, so I won't give typical times. If a potential client asks, I will say that I usually beat the average time, but even with a good application, I get some that linger longer than the average. I have even had a disaster - 174 days a year or so ago - and that was on a good application in a case where the specialist did not raise one issue. It simply sat. I tried everything short of dynamite to get it moving.

Conclusion - If my similar applications show a range of well over 100 days, then the time from submission until approval is not closely correlated to the quality of the application. Yes, the care with which an application was prepared will probably affect time to approval - I can only imagine the difference with which the specialists must deal - but care in preparation is no guarantee of timely approval, which has a lot to do with the workload and work habits of the specialist who reviews it.

.

Message 1 - it makes no sense to take a small sample composed of the persons who respond here, over a couple of years time, and try to project what is likely to happen with your application when you submit it today. Forget nuances like the fact the sample isn't random; the principal problem is that it is too small.

Message 2 - Even if we took a 100% sample, I've got a hunch the standard deviation in time to approval is high. I said that the average time in July was 114 days. I'd bet my dollars to your donuts that the actual approvals don't cluster around that date. I'd bet they spread across quite a range.

Message 3 - All of this means that I think the average time to approval is not a typical time to approval and you really have no information on which you can rely..

Recommendation - Submit a good application, which puts you in a position to get lucky if the application falls into the hands of a specialist who moves paper. But remember that even good applications can get stuck, like a fermentation, long before completion. Be prepared to wait until TTB approves, because there is not much anyone can do to make a specialist move faster than the specialist is going to move.

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Filed May 20, 2015 (officially) - Approved on October 9, 2015 = 142 days

Notes: The bond was filled out perfectly by Aaron Linden (from this site). Recommend him for you new guys thinking of doing this. Ended up have zero comments and was passed through to "Recommend Final Disposition". Sat there for a few weeks, called back in, got rejected and sent back to the original reviewer. She had 2 very short, one sentence questions that required very short one sentence answers, turn around in 1 day on that. Then back to Recommend Final Disposition for three weeks with me calling 1-2 times a week, waiting on hold, getting dropped because the system was too busy, etc. Finally got ahold of a real person, whom told me she would do her best to get it looked at.

No fancy certificate mailed out, nor a parade thrown, and no balloons fell from the ceiling, but got a simple email stating: "Hey you, your application is approved, and your permit is issued."

Process was about as expected and explained to me by many other distillers. Those of you that did help, thanks. I guess I finally have to go to work now. I can say while the process was long and irritating, the people at the TTB were always very professional and polite. I would even say very nice to talk to.... when you could get ahold of them. If anyone wants to see my application and all relevant notes, I am happy to share... I just have to make the time to black out my personal info and convert it to a pdf. I sure wish I would have had one before I started.

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DSP application filed on September 15th, received approval on January 26th. 133 days start to finish, 6 days less than the 139 day expected wait time in effect when we filed in September.

My only interaction with TTB during the entire process was yesterday when I had a brief conversation with the specialist to clear up 1 small point. The change was made and I received approval within 2 hours after hanging up the phone.

As others have done, I'd like to give a shout out to Aaron Linden for preparing a perfect bond - it's comforting to know that bond issues will not hold up approval - Thanks Aaron!

In the end, we had a really clean application - the specialist told me it was the most complete 1st submission he's had in 10 years processing DSP applications - but as Mr. Dunbar states, it's really hit or miss as to how long the process takes.

Now the real work begins! Slainte'

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