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Barrel Agitation, new product idea


hertzbier

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Hi everyone -

Just wanted to get back to this thread to let you know that our website is up and running, we've got some pics from our experiments and a video up there. Would very much like to get to know you better and, ultimately, help contribute to the craft.

Cheers,

Matt

www.hertzbier.com

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That's pretty groovy. I clicked on your link to your Facebook page and it didn't find the page, but I was able to find you by searching. May want to look into that.

On your page, it says, "The Symphony's Conductor is strapped underneath your vessel to transmit wireless power..." Is it wireless power, or magnetism? Because with what experiments I've seen with wireless power, it's horribly inefficient. Have you done a longer test? 2 weeks is a good start, but it's hardly conclusive.

Not trying to be overly critical, just very interested in what you are doing and trying to figure out if it makes sense.

Good Luck!

Turtle

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Turtle - we sincerely appreciate your questions and comments, I'll look into the Facebook issue (appreciate the tip).

So the system does work on wireless power, and the primary issue that we needed to tackle was how to transmit that power through the relatively thick barrel staves (~1" on average). That's where the intellectual property behind this is, and we're fortunate to have a couple of eclectic physicists on our team that wanted to tackle that challenge. As far as efficiency is concerned, the whole system uses about the same amount of power that it takes to drive an LED light-bulb (< 10 W). For the solution to make sense, we assumed that it needed to be cost-effective and user-friendly over much longer time periods, which is why we chose to skip batteries. A magnetic stir plate wouldn't have been practical over that distance.

As far as running longer duration tests, the answer is not yet. We felt like we had enough proof-of-concept after two weeks to stop the testing. Plus, the angel's share in our little 2L barrels was pretty substantial in the hot & dry San Diego lab. As the barrels get larger and the duration gets longer, the cost and availability of distillate is a bit prohibitive for us at this point. We brew a lot of beer but we don't [yet] have a still, and before I jump into the next obsession I wanted to tackle this one.

We're gonna launch a crowdfunding campaign soon to help us go into production, we'd be thrilled to get contact information submitted through our website so that we can let you all know when that happens.

Thanks again.

- Hertzbier

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Hertz

Congrats on your design. It seems viable, and should provide some functionality. There is certainly elegance in your design.

We likewise have patents pending on our equipment and processes, which we have chosen to keep sealed at this time, as we continue to produce products with variations related to our design and process.

Our TIIME Machine (Tactile Immersed Isolated Maturation Engine) has proven to be quite remarkable, not so much as a mere accelerator, as that was not our primary objective, but more-so as a infinitely controllable and variable maturation and flavoring driver.

We have not yet decided if we will be releasing this technology to the market, or maintain it for proprietary usage in house. Regardless however, I look forward to more players in the marketplace that will continue to push the boundaries of flavor in real TIIME.

I have attached a photo of our 81 day old bourbon, matured with TIIME in a 10 gallon Standard Char 10 gallon Black Swan barrel , on the right. On the left is a similar amount of 12 year Johnny Walker Black. Perhaps I'm a bit biased, but I prefer the flavor of ours.

Best of luck, and perhaps we shall meet in the marketplace.

Prost

Roger

post-4474-0-42713800-1403751373_thumb.jp

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Seems that everyone is looking at leveraging accelerated maturation techniques as part of their differentiation strategy, especially using agitation.

We too will do this, our plan it to load barrels on an 18 wheeler and drive them around the pot-hole ridden streets of the NY metro area. Initial trials are proving highly successful, really enjoying the subtle notes of Jersey wildflowers … and diesel. We may even paint a picture of a pirate ship on the side, for good measure.

:lol:

All kidding aside, looks awesome, well done! Especially like the wireless technology. Not sure where you are located but perhaps a partnership with a local distillery for larger scale trials might be a way to build some additional credibility?

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Seems that everyone is looking at leveraging accelerated maturation techniques as part of their differentiation strategy, especially using agitation.

We too will do this, our plan it to load barrels on an 18 wheeler and drive them around the pot-hole ridden streets of the NY metro area. Initial trials are proving highly successful, really enjoying the subtle notes of Jersey wildflowers … and diesel. We may even paint a picture of a pirate ship on the side, for good measure.

:lol:

All kidding aside, looks awesome, well done! Especially like the wireless technology. Not sure where you are located but perhaps a partnership with a local distillery for larger scale trials might be a way to build some additional credibility?

I'm going to float mine down the Raritan from Johnson Park to the Raritan Yacht Club in Perth Amboy. I'm confident that the subtle notes of arsenic and untreated sewerage will impart a unique and desirable character.

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I'm going to float mine down the Raritan from Johnson Park to the Raritan Yacht Club in Perth Amboy. I'm confident that the subtle notes of arsenic and untreated sewerage will impart a unique and desirable character.

*whew* My idea is safe. I'm going to get one of those "magic carpets" from a sky resort and have the barrels brought up a small hill and rolled down on a continuous loop. :P

Hertz,

Thanks for the reply. That shows how much I know about wireless power tech. I think I read an article 5 years ago. I've liked your Facebook and will be looking in on your progress. :)

Roger,

Comparing a blended Scotch to a bourbon out of a single barrel doesn't seem to be a very good comparison. Also, besides the grain bill being very different, did you use the same type of barrels? If not, I'm not sure how you can draw a reliable conclusion from your test.

I once compared a Tequila and a Rum. The rum was better. :P

-Turtle.

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Turtle - while of course many things that occur with various Scotch is secret, it is no secret that Johnny Walker uses both new and used charred oak, and in the case of the Black it is aged for 12 years. After that the blend, all of which has presumably been aged a minimum of 12 years, has very little to do with the exact proportions of the mash bill (% of which grain) and far more to do with the maturation process. Some old timers say as much as 70% of the flavor is from the barrel, that far out.

Beyond that, the Black mash bill may be exactly the same as ours, with the only difference, our locale determining the TTB Brand designation. This unlike the differences between Rum and Tequila. We will perhaps never know the mash bills, so we can only rely on the taste, aroma, and viscosity to judge our preference. But I have also heard of something called conformational bias :)

And again, we have little or no interest in accelerated maturation. Our technology is purely intended to drive the flavor profile. If it takes 6 months or 6 years, so be it.

Roger

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Roger,

I've heard someone say that the flavor profile is 80% from the barrel, but he said a lot of things. :P

I guess the only question that really matters is, "Does it taste good?" OR "Is the taste I'm trying to make?" I just thought your comparison was kind of funny. Are you shooting for a simular profile to Johnny Walker Black?

Cheers,

Turtle

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Actually one of the people I use as a tasting critic, likes the Black and uses it as a comparison taste. I have since bought it, and also use it for a base line. Of course my palate is not as refined as an expert, but you have to start somewhere, and if so it might as well be on the high side.

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Turtle - while of course many things that occur with various Scotch is secret, ......................................

.................

Beyond that, the Black mash bill may be exactly the same as ours,

Who, besides me, knows the exact mash bill of JW Black?

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Johnnie Walker Black is a blended Scotch....so their is no exact mash bill. They will have a very similar mix of blends, but it's never going to be the same. I heard a year or so ago that they were building their own Distillery, so maybe that's all going to change.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

Interesting read. I would be reasonably confident that your device has extracted more from the wood,

BUT since you only used one barrel for each test how do you know it wasn't just the barrel variation that caused the differences.

Identically made barrels are well known to mature spirits at very different rates

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  • 2 weeks later...

Suppose it depends on your setup. I've never spec'd out a barrel roller/conveyor, but they look* expensive and like they take up some space, so I don't imagine they'd scale well. Our devices are designed as a drop-in for wherever your barrels are currently located, so logistically speaking nothing has to be moved/handled to enable the effects.

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  • 1 year later...
On 3/16/2016 at 8:54 AM, hertzbier said:

Suppose it depends on your setup. I've never spec'd out a barrel roller/conveyor, but they look* expensive and like they take up some space, so I don't imagine they'd scale well. Our devices are designed as a drop-in for wherever your barrels are currently located, so logistically speaking nothing has to be moved/handled to enable the effects.

@hertzbier have you got any further with your efforts? Nothing heard for a while and i don't see any updates on your website. Are you still pursuing the idea?

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@Coriolis what a treat! Thanks for the check in. We most definitely are still pursuing this idea. We've had to "pivot" the technology towards something easier to use and cheaper to make...we just couldn't make the wirelessly powered device cheap enough to scale it. I've got a few still, and they're actually pretty awesome in my carboys, but that's where they do their work nowadays. It's also the reason we have been quiet...we tried rolling out that last version a little over a year ago, ran into numerous problems, and couldn't deliver. It was a humbling experience, to say the very least.

That being said, we never stopped (can't stop) and have continued developing and testing a hard-wired device in San Diego that is much more effective (so we're told), is a fraction of the cost, and is made of stainless steel (we heard y'all). It's a bung replacement, fits right into the bung hole. We've got a few in the field already, I'll see if I can get a pic or two. More coming, for sure. 

Give us a shout if you're interested, we'd love to hear from everyone. Cheers.

matt@hertzbier.com

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