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Open Wooden Fermenter Opinions


phillyaaron

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We have some periods of time where we don't have a ferment in the Cypress Tanks. We typically try to keep them full of water so they stay sealed but that leads to mold which we need to rinse off and clean well before using. Any thoughts on something safe we could add to the water to keep them mold free?

Are you sure it's mold and not algae? The latter would make more sense in a pure liquid environment.

Assuming it's algae, there are a number of fixes. You can add some salt to the water. You can also add about 1 tsp of bleach per gallon of fill water. Either way, you're going to want to do a quick rinse-out prior to use, but it will be less work than trying to eradicate the scum.

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In short, no. We find that if we clean the tanks good, we will get some mold on the sides of the tanks within a day or so. I'm not a mold expert but that's what it looks like to us. We can easily it off and clean the tanks regularly but we prefer to leave water in them so they stay sealed. If we let them dry out for a day or two, we have issues getting them to seal up immedialtey when we add water. So we're essentially looking to leave them full or water (when not in use) and put something non-toxic in there to prevent the mold/algae build up so that we can just drain them and spray them down and load them up. If we let them sit for a week or more, I pretty much have to go in there with a scrub brush and clean the sides, cooling coil, etc.

Bleach works but we were trying to avoid that soaking into the wood, etc. Salt would appear safer but not sure if they would soak into the wood and affect spirits down the road.

Obviously the best solution is running them constantly but we aren't able to do that quite yet.

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Buy a tote of GNS. Fill the fermenter with water. Add enough GNS to get the abv to 20%. Cover fermenter with shrink wrap to keep too much of the ethanol from evaporating. If you're leaving it for extended periods, check the abv with a hydrometer to ensure no less than 20% abv.

Cheap. Easy. Safe.

Never add chlorine or any other chemical to wood.

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Thanks - we thought about NGS and it is an decent option. We're adverse to using NGS simply because we don't use any NGS in our spirits philosophically. We've actually had customers (both retail and bar owners) poke around our shop looking for NGS totes to see if we were telling the truth! So I'm hesitant to have NGS on site and have to try to explain it. Any other options that are safe?

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I totally agree with Denver Distiller. NO CHLORINE = BLEACH in wooden fermenters. It can cause chlorophenol taint in stainless and HDPE containers so a real risk in wood.

County Seat, is it possible to tighten hoops on the wooden tanks as they dry out? Do they have hoops that can be driven down or bolts tightened? Spray with water inside and out a few hours before filling. I don't bother keeping unused barrels hydrated, just drive hoops before I test with water.

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Thanks - we thought about NGS and it is an decent option. We're adverse to using NGS simply because we don't use any NGS in our spirits philosophically. We've actually had customers (both retail and bar owners) poke around our shop looking for NGS totes to see if we were telling the truth! So I'm hesitant to have NGS on site and have to try to explain it. Any other options that are safe?

None that are as cheap as GNS.

We make our own vodka on-site too, with the added step of floor malting, so I understand what you're getting at here. We buy GNS to swell fermenters if we can't fill them for a week for some reason, to sanitize our malt floor and steep tanks, and for trial distillations. All you have to do is be honest as to what you use it for.... you're using it to sanitize a fermenter without cleaning chemicals. Can't imagine a bartender or spirits buyer not understanding why you use it. It's a dirt cheap sanitizer.

If you're really that worried, just use your own vodka. But you and I both know how much more expensive it is to make it, than it is to buy a tote of outsourced GNS. It's why we buy GNS as a santizer. There's no way in hell I'm going to go to the time and expense malt barley, mash it, and distill it twice......and then use it as a sanitizer.

Best of luck....

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Denver Distiller,

We are preparing to order a few wood fermenters, do you have any recommendations on suppliers. We have spoken to 4 different folks and prices are all over the place as well as opinions on types of wood to use. Any input you, or anyone else, are willing to share would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

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I originally ordered cypress tanks, they were destroyed during shipping. Because of the long build/wait times I decided to just order stainless tanks instead of waiting for new ones. The company I was dealing with for the cypress tanks was great and I ended up having no trouble getting a full refund. That being said, when it came down to ordering bigger tanks for our expansion, I didn't even consider wood tanks. All of these things that we are discussing in regards to keeping the tanks clean, sealed and leakproof are something I don't have to worry about with stainless.

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Here's why we use wooden tanks. Setting aside that the provide a home for bacteria and wild yeast that will yield more complex whiskey.

Next time one of your crew is about to clean an empty fermenter, start a stopwatch. Then have a look at how long it took. Multiply that times the entire cost of your employee per hour.

Add in the caustic, acid, sanitizer, water, and sewer cost. Then multiply that total times the number of times you turn that tank per year. We're distillers, so you have far more turns per year than a brewer, no?

I'd wager you'll hit $1000 per fermenter, per year without much effort if the tank is anything larger than a few hundred gallons in size, and you flip your tanks even just once a week.

With our wooden tanks, after pumping the contents to a still, we do one rinse, and push every last bit of that rinse into a still.

That's it. Done. No labor cost for CIP, no chemicals. It's ready for refill. This means that in about 9 years, in comparison to a stainless tank of the same size, my wooden fermenters are now free....they have paid for themselves.

Meanwhile, after year 9, the meter is still running on those stainless tanks at at least $1K per year, per fermenter......

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So leave your stainless tanks and hoses dirty, you'll have no problem creating a unique bacterial biome... Perhaps you'll be lucky enough to pick up a nice terroir, maybe even a marketing story around it?

Think of all the money saved, until Swamp Thing comes crawling out of your fermenter and terrior turns into terror.

For those who have spent some time with non-yeast bacteria, you'll remember that the source of Clostridium in old rums was fecal matter.

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I have been to a couple of places it smelled like the crapped in their tanks. But I think the morale is, "don't crap in your fermenter, wood or metal."

What's the consensus on cement fermenters?

Although I knew ancients stored wine in cement cisterns, I just saw an article about modern breweries using them.

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Here is a quick one from DEHNER..... With all the modern technology in stainless and plastics and cleaning chemicals why would you ever want to use a wooden fermenter!

Wooden fermenter = DUMB IDEA, unless you are dumb and like to clean a lot.

The hill people used wood barrels because thats all they had back in the day. They would say "What in tar nation is this stainless your jibber jabbin about, and in sam heck is plastic? Can you eat it? G-Shucks!"

Mind Equals Blown!

MIKE DROP!!!!

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........

What's the consensus on cement fermenters?

Although I knew ancients stored wine in cement cisterns, I just saw an article about modern breweries using them.

I have seen large CONCRETE pipes (cement is the powder used to make concrete) used in wineries. Stood on end, some concrete in the bottom then coated with wax.

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Dehner. as a response to your statement

Lactobasilici, terroir, complexity of spirit. Master distillers of any distillery in Kentucky will be aware of but seldom discuss, what a properly aged wooden vat does to the whiskey.

it is not irrelevant, just because it is not commonly understood.

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I agree with ASD.

I have a thing for bacteria. I'm successfully propagating a number of non-yeast bacteria - a few selected strains of lactobacillus and as well as a specific propionibacterium and clostridium strain. Took a while to work out the specific starter formulas and propagation methods, and find sources for the right strains, but it's working well. The procedure is similar to a stepped yeast starter, albeit somewhat more complex.

Unlike wood, with this approach you can control for specific bacterial strains, and introduce them at specific points in the process. Imagine if by chance you got the perfect blend of bacteria, got a fantastic series of batches, and then some rookie dumps sanitizer in the wood tank. The magic is done, it's all gone. Likewise, with a brand new tank, what guarantees you inoculation with the right bacteria and not the wrong bacteria? Nothing.

Why leave it up to chance? It's about time bacteria got the limelight.

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Dehner. as a response to your statement

Lactobasilici, terroir, complexity of spirit. Master distillers of any distillery in Kentucky will be aware of but seldom discuss, what a properly aged wooden vat does to the whiskey.

it is not irrelevant, just because it is not commonly understood.

Do you have a wooden fermentor?

Would you use a wooden fermentor?

I did not think so on both accounts...

just sayin.

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