Starting Smaller

[jessicajlemmon]

We've been bouncing around for a while with issues of location, pricing and such. It looks like we finally have someone that's willing to play ball with zoning, but the available property is a bit on the smaller side. The good news is, it's also a lot cheaper than the original place we found.

That said, we were fixating on a 250g +/- still initially. I'd rather have everything set up once and have the capability to do decent runs once we get rolling. Of course, that's not a cheap date and anything that size has a lead time to it. (And getting quotes... well... I'm sure you know.)

Since we've spent so long spinning our wheels with municipalities and locals, we've started debating the pros of picking up a small set up = 50 gallons or so, just so we can get the permitting started and start testing our recipes without going overboard. Then add the bigger still in as phase 2.

Has anyone gone this route? Is it worth doubling the effort?

Anyone have a nice small set up they've outgrown and want to get rid of?

Thanks

Jessica

[jeffw]

If there is another local distillery, perhaps you can team up with them and use there equipment and still get your bigger system. Just a thought. Pretty impossible to say if a small system makes sense for you as there are too many variables.

[jessicajlemmon]

No one else in this area, thus the eagerness to get going before someone else does. (And the trouble we've had with the local municipalitie.)

There are brewries that could help us out on that end, but not for the distilling itself.

[Temple Distilling]

My wife and I are starting on the smaller side (100g still) for two reasons.

1) Budget--obviously a bit less expensive so we can survive the first stage of the business, test runs for recipe development are a lot easier etc

2) Much shorter run times--means we keep our day jobs to earn money, as well as have extra time to coordinate other aspects of the business. Kind of hard to start a run at 4pm in the afternoon on a 250g still, much easier with 100g to get home in time for some sleep.

It also depends a lot on what you are making (vodka, gin, whiskey etc) since a small vodka still could affect flavor negatively if you can't get enough purification, but a smaller gin still might just be a pot still, so besides scaling recipes, will not have a massive effect on your product.

[Panoscape]

" ...we can get the permitting started and start testing our recipes without going overboard."

Just as an FYI, if you're in the states then you can't test anything until you receive your DSP. That being said, go for the bigger still, like a 400 gallon one so you can do a full day's run and produce enough to make a living. We started with a 50 gal. and it was a waste of time. We stepped up to a 150 gallon and that was still to small.

[jessicajlemmon]

Yes, the testing couldn't start until the approvals were in place, just the benefit of the smaller batches as we test. Poor phrasing on my part.

Looking to make whiskey, gin and possibly a vodka down the line, but the goal would be something with more flavor. I can see a small set up being totally inefficent if vodka was the goal.

This is a situation where we would keep our day jobs (at least for a year or so), so efficency is important to me as well. Bigger would be ideal, but compromise could get things going sooner.

[Jake Holshue]

Well while going big is a dream of ours, we started small. More for the reasons that we had an ideal building for a tasting room- but not necessarily the best production facility, but we had a custom built small system because that was the biggest thing we could fit through the door. We are located in a nationally registered historic building, that had no garage doors. So our still is 300 liters (almost 80 gallons) with 12 hectoliter fermenters, our boilers are undersized (and used in series), and our actual production space is less than 350 square feet. You can still make quality products, but space and quantity will always be an issue.

Luckily we just got the ability to legally store off site in the state of Montana, this will help- but still dream of a bigger location.

Jake

[jessicajlemmon]

Wow @ 350 square feet! The facility we're looking at has a pole barn that's right around 1,000 SF, that we would finish off for production. A nice retail space/bar is attached to that but we're pretty much limited to the pole barn for storage and production.

I'm a little bit murky on what off site storage is allowed in PA, but there's the potential to put another storage building on the property, down the line.

We have been considering having something built locally, we know a lot of metal fabricators, just not any that specifically know the specific ins and outs of a still, so I'm hesitant to do that.

[leftturndistilling]

For your stills you should talk to Jesse @ Trident ... Awesome work .. Don't have any of his stuff but I've seen a lot of it first hand ... top notch Fab work !!! Another Idea for storage is a shipping container, We use a 20' unit to age and store most of our spirits in, it is covered in our bond.

[jessicajlemmon]

Interesting idea on the shipping container for the extra storage. We live in an area that gets "polar vortex" cold in the winter, but there might be a way to make that work.

I'll look up Trident.

Thanks!

[OldSpye]

if you wish, keep me posted on your progress toward a still. I'm having mine custom built by a coppersmith in Cape May. I can refer you to him, for a little of that "down home" craftsmanship.

[oaknharbordistillery]

We're small. 55 gallon still, five conical fermenters, 1200 square foot DSP and retail area (~ 600 for the DSP, 600 for the retail/tasting shop). You could "skirt" some rules when it comes to storage of things like unused barrels, bottles, etc. by purchasing them yourself and then "selling" them to your business. That way you procure what you need in one big purchase which saves you some bucks, and then "sell" it to your outfit as you need it. It'll help you keep from gumming up your operating space and keep things looking organized.