Degermed Corn for Bourbon Production

[NEPA-still-chillin]

We are currently approaching a larger distiller to contract distill our grain bill for us until we can get our larger still in place.

He seems to keep insisting that we want to use degermed corn for our Bourbon bill and that corn with the germ in will hurt our overall yield.

This I can understand as a NGS producer, why would you want all that protein in your large volume ferment that will not yield alcohol. As a whiskey producer I would think you would want this germ in your mash to produce more congers and overall character.

Seems pretty logical to me but maybe there is something I'm missing, Anybody ever use degermed corn for Bourbon/Whiskey?

[mcsology]

My understanding of 'corn germ' is that is not the same as wheat germ, in that it's nutrient/oil rich goodness, but rather the cellulosic crap that gets stuck in your gums when you eat popcorn.

I don't know why it would hurt yield, but it might be your guy trying to give you a good reason to not get all that crap in his mill, auger, mash tun, etc....

We use steamed rolled corn because our contract mashers are brewers and don't want to dirty their mills, etc... with goopy corn grist.

[Roger]

The use of various grains at different percentages in different manners is the real beauty of craft. Many grains are processed in a variety of manners, to bring about a specifically desired result. Some are pre rolled and steamed, some are degermed, some are lautered post ferment, and some are cooked on grain. Every end result will be different, based on what went in, and in what manner. Some differences will be subtle, and some will be less so But keep in mind that most people are in business to make money, and that sometimes means that processes are set based on the bottom line, and or ease of production.

In some cases because a specific technology or practice wasn't available years ago, a lot of the old brands set their flavor profiles, and it's now hard for them to change the flavors that people "expect" from them. Too bad. Craft can however be noble and quick, and you shouldn't hesitate to bring to market something other than yet another story about somebody's Great Great Granpappy who was wrinkled.

And no. I'm not telling you how we do ours

Prost

[miller]

Perhaps a breakdown of a kernel of corn would be helpful. An

average bushel of yellow dent corn weighs 56 pounds. Approximately 70 percent of the kernel is

starch (from the endosperm), about 10 percent is protein (predominantly gluten, yes gluten),four percent is oil (extracted from the germ), and two percent is fiber (from the hull). When you use de-germed corn you increase your starch content and thus increase yield. You also aren’t handing the extra waste product and you use less water. There is the issue of added cost for de-germed corn however. That is a trade off you need to decided if it’s cost effective. I can say it’s much easier to convey, cook and pump without the solids. You will also have much less oil to separate, yes you may lose some flavor profiles but from my experience you haven’t lost much.

[Roger]

Another thng we have found is there appears to be some difference in flavor profile when cooking on the grain in a pot still, vs a continuous still operation. For example in a continuous column the mash is heated for a very short time, just long enough for the appropriate alcohols to be pulled off, and it It then falls away. Conversely in a pot still where the entire wash is cooked for hours, you are also cooking all of the bits, parts and oils of the unfermented grain, and imparting some of that "over cooked" flavor into the process. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just something to consider.

Of course some of those flavors may carry over and some may not, likewise some may end up in the heads or tails cuts and subsequently be removed, but they are in the wash, and they do change in flavor and intensity, given the variable processes of distillation. I like many others have also tried a variety of ways to lauter / sparge corn mash and it is very difficult to do on a large scale, however degermed corn seems to alleviate a lot of these issues.

I actually called the TTB a while back and asked them if there were any prohibitions against using degermed corn in any product that required X percentage of corn in its standard of identity, or if it required a formula approval. After explaining to the person what degermed corn was, and why it was sometimes used, she said she saw no reason why it mattered to the TTB as it was still just corn. Note that this is not legal advise, because quite frankly the TTB seems to change its mind on many things, depending on who you talk to, but I don't think its a problem, and it does lend itself to a smooth distillate.

Prost

[NEPA-still-chillin]

Firstly I'd like to thank everyone for the in depth answers and taking the time to do so.

There is no wrong or right answer for this, which is the beauty of artisanal distilling.

I'll ride the wave so to say on this and see how it turns out, I think that I'm being over concerned with trying to nail our recipe and flavor profile. Rather I should be willing to accept a new way and see what that can bring.

The break down of a corn kernel is awesome!

Thank you everyone!