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For you PA Distillers here: Information on Limited Distillery Production


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Greetings from Moonshineville.

I just asked a question of the LCB here in Pennsylvania and found out that not only has no one seemed to ask it but the fact that the LCB not only does not know but that there is no legal consensus within the LCB or the LCB legal department. That question was:

Is the 100,000 gallon production limit of a limited distillery based on the end product of the distillation, aka the Proof Gallon, or is it the finished production limit?

Presently the Legal department of the LCB is researching and they are going to be debating over a consensus answer which should be available within a month. The fact that the legal in the LCB does not have a consensus and that there already have been some differences of opinion between the lawyers in the employ of the LCB should make this an interesting process.

What we are looking at is a huge issue as the difference between the two is worth millions of dollars of sales potential. Based off my projection pricing numbers that gap with our product line is worth around 14 million dollars of product (24 million vs 10 million).

I will keep you posted with any further deveopments in this issue as I am updated by the LCB legal department.

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I remember the first time I read the limited distillery FAQ thinking how unclear this limit was. All the same, if your doing well enough to need to worry about the limit you can probably afford to pay the state the $5,000 a year for a full distillery license.

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I remember the first time I read the limited distillery FAQ thinking how unclear this limit was. All the same, if your doing well enough to need to worry about the limit you can probably afford to pay the state the $5,000 a year for a full distillery license.

Agreed but if one is starting up as a limited distillery knowing exactly what is ment by 100,000 gallons does have an impact on planning and development of a product. My plan is to use the PA Spirits Program which allows limited distilleries to place up to 10 products in 10 stores of their chosing with them being a headline and endcapped product. This is a very strong marketing program and with a bit of research one can find the best stores to place a start-up product line into and go from there.

I have been told that there will be a 2016 version of the PA Spirits Program and with that type of marketing avaiable only to limited distilleries knwoing what the possible product could be while taking advantage of that, along with other limited distillery programs which will be coming in the next few years, is invaluable.

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Here you go....

That is the stupidest question ever. If you are making 10-24 million dollars a year you got way bigger problems to worry about.

1. Pay the extra money like what the other guy said.

2. Move to another state.

3. Start another distillery in another state

You will get bought out before you ever get that big anyway.

And if you are so worried and so rich ask proper people not a FOURM.

In Iowa if you go over the limit, we would get a different permit and poof! problem solved. Think about it "IOWA home of the 10-25 million gallons a year ethanol plants".

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Here you go....

That is the stupidest question ever. If you are making 10-24 million dollars a year you got way bigger problems to worry about.

1. Pay the extra money like what the other guy said.

2. Move to another state.

3. Start another distillery in another state

You will get bought out before you ever get that big anyway.

And if you are so worried and so rich ask proper people not a FOURM.

In Iowa if you go over the limit, we would get a different permit and poof! problem solved. Think about it "IOWA home of the 10-25 million gallons a year ethanol plants".

Thank you for your input from Iowa but I never asked anyone here what the answer was and did actually ask the proper people, the Legal Council for the Liquor Control Board of Pennsylvania.

I was just informing people that this question, which for me is very important, was never asked of the Legal Council of the Liquor Control Board of Pennsylvania. Presently they are in the middle of researching this matter and trying to come up to proper legal and binding consensus which does have a impact on both limited and normal distilleries.

Also, my dear friend from Iowa, you should realize that when one says such thing as projection that means possible earning which are used to gain such wonderful things such as loans and credit lines. Cost analysis is also very important to figuring out a direction and long term plan and production limitations, especially when it comes to an aged product.

Add to this, as I clearly stated within the post which you have taken issue with, the wonderful state of Pennsylvania is giving special consideration to limited distilleries such as free marketing, possible tax breaks and other wonderful goodies, so if you know how far you can push a limited distillery license then you can have solid, profitable production while receiving all the benefits that PA is going to give to a limited distillery over a normal distillery, especially during start-up when such considerations are needed most.

Now I do understand that as Iowa, having such a large ethanol production industry, the importance of quality control and product testing, but that does not mean one should enter the practice of sniffing said fumes and would hope in the future that if you do wish to make a comment upon a post which you are having such a difficult time in comprehending, that one would refrain from such activities and comment with a clear mind and in a manner which is more fitting for one in such as position as you, my dear master distiller.

Thank you and I hope not to “ask” any more stupid question, even though I was not asking anyone upon this forum, so as I do not incite your corn whiskey infused rage in the future. Good luck and distill safely.

- CJ

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Bud CJ,

Here it what I am saying. Here in Iowa as a lot of places we have limits of 100,000 gallons (currently, we are trying to raise the limit) of production for micro-distilleries. As being a micro distillery we get a lot of perks that people out of this limit don't get. This is not my first rodeo, as a matter of fact I own several distilleries through out the USA. I under stand fully what you are trying to do , we do the same thing. But if your worried about going over your 100,000 gallon or proof gallon limit.... well who cares.. your hardest decision will be what color Lamborghini to drive to work. I have seen first hand multi million dollar distilleries not even come close to making 100,000 gallons per year.

Here is another angle, with all the distilleries coming on line it is going to be harder and harder to get into other states. So where are you going to get rid of 100,000 gallons of booze?

lets say it is proof gallons 100,000 x 6.3=630,000 750ml bottles or 52,500 12pc cases.... lots of booze.

The answers sometimes are to simple that people over look them.

In this business people think way to hard about the simple things.

A: open another distillery next door or where ever and transfer in bond to each other. Remember your making millions at that point.

Corn whiskey rage? Good luck with that.

Have a super good day!

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Thank you and I fully agree with you. I knew this was not your first rodeo just by the way you talked and glad to know I was right.

Our initial production will not be anywhere close to 100,000 gallons proof as from my personal experience and knowing the still set-up our total yearly production should be in around 40,000 to 42,000 proof gallons at start. The issue comes in with what will be done with that proof gallon in post-production. Our base recipe, which we were producing for over 200 years, comes in at 130% proof on average so breaking down those proof gallons in post-production gives us a lot of variation. Presently, I am leaning towards the 500 ml bottles and going 16 per case putting us on a solid and profitable path if our sales are just halfway in the ballpark that we use to sell it at.

I just want to ride the limited/micro distillery bubble as long as I can and knowing at what point that bubble breaks and we can go all in. That is why I asked the LCB here in PA to come up with an actual legal definition of what constitutes the 100,000 gallon limit and thought that since it has not yet been defined in PA that others might be interested in what they will conclude that to be. That is the only reason I posted it.

I hope you had a happy Memorial Day and remember to drink responsibly, or at least pretend to. Cheers.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just went back and read this again, and it seems like you are saying that your plan is to produce and sell 30,000 (500ml) bottles a month through the 10 state run stores that the new PA Spirits Program gives you access to. That seems very unlikely to me.

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No. My plan is to produce 500ml bottles and sell them within the region of Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Delaware and Maryland.

In Pennsylvania they have a program which allows a limited distillery and only a limited distillery to select 10 stores within the state of Pennsylvania where your product can be showcased and given prime locations such as right at the entrance or endcap spaces. As long as one case is sold per month you get to hold that position.

For me, this ruling not only lets me set possible profits but also means that as a distillery, as long you’re your surety bond covers the amount and storage space, you can produce as much distilled alcohol as your bonded limit and still be able to keep your limited distillery designation as long as that product is ‘unfinished’. This makes handling heads and tails of a run much easier, in my opinion, as you can now distill them to hell and back and jam them into a cask into your bonded area for a few years.

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