Booziosliquors

Not Adding Yeast Nutrient

18 posts in this topic

So I just read on a beer brewing forum that an all grain mash does not require you to add any yeast nutrients.  They claimed that the grain contained all of the nitrogen and other nutrients required by the yeast. 

Any thoughts on this?  Anyone out there running all grain mashes and found they do not need nutrients?  Or tried it and found they did need nutrients?

 

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never used nutrients on all grain mash. Backset does contain some nutrients, which i do add, but seems to have more effect on flavor/yield/consistency than actual yeast activity. temperature seems to have the most effect on my yeast. 

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We make whiskey out of all types of grain (rye, spelt, wheat, barley, corn, malted barley, oats) and have never added yeast nutrient to any of them.

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We're of a different school of thought here.  We use g0-ferm for every ferment, grain or not.  To us it's a matter of maintaining production consistencies (it's been shown to help, season to season in yield and taste profiles), as well as an insurance policy we wont have a stuck or lagging ferment.  Small price to pay for better odds.

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On 10/20/2016 at 6:40 AM, Booziosliquors said:

So I just read on a beer brewing forum that an all grain mash does not require you to add any yeast nutrients.  They claimed that the grain contained all of the nitrogen and other nutrients required by the yeast. 

Any thoughts on this?  Anyone out there running all grain mashes and found they do not need nutrients?  Or tried it and found they did need nutrients?

 

remember that brewers use barley (almost) exclusively, so if you aren't doing a pure malt wash then the rules don't necessarily apply.  If you aren't having fermentation issues then carry on.  If you are, follow Blackheart and add go-ferm (although I think that's specifically for rehydration benefits), fermaid k (or ferm-O).  Chances are you'll benefit from one of the nutrients whether its faster ferments or just a cleaner ferment.  Don't add urea though.  

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We take the go-ferm insurance policy as well. A cup in a 17bbl batch is nothing vs the risk of getting stuck.

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To the original question, as other have said, no need to add nutrients on a general basis to AG ferments. I do add a little DAP to pretty much every ferment just in case. I view it as insurance too.

18 hours ago, nabtastic said:

 Don't add urea though.  

I've heard that before but never why.  Why do you avoid it?

Has anyone done any research into attenuation/alcohol production, ferment speed or taste with or without specific nutrients? I assume (sans evidence) you would get better attenuation and faster ferments, but not so sure on taste. 

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urea is a precursor to ethyl carbamate, a known carcinogen.  you can boil bakers yeast (as the homedistiller forum suggest, yeast hulls don't provide nitrogen but thats also not the point of using hulls) for amino acids.  DAP is also better than urea because it has a N base (diammonium) and P (phosphate), the two macros that you'll likely be deficient in. You need to ensure that all of the nutrients (or at least the DAP addition) is metabolized before the finish of fermentation because residual N will affect flavor.  This is one of the reasons why you add at the beginning of fermentation or after 1/3 of the sugars have been depleted.  For my current use, I add it at the start of fermentation and after 12-16 hrs depending on ferment speed and lag time - but I'm doing fresh pressed sugarcane (agricole-style) which is an entirely different beast than most of y'all 

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FWIW:

I have never, ever used nutrients in any grain mash.  I've found, more than anything, correct pitch rate and ferm temps affect attenuation. And I have tried much (most?) of the fancy yeast-chow starter goo on the marker.  With proper temp and pitch rate I go from 1070 to dry in 3 to 4 days.

 

 

 

 

 

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https://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/ChemicalContaminants/ucm078546.htm

 

DAP and urea should not be used in the same yeast nutrient mixture.  I have not (knowingly) purchased any blends but if you know of some please let us know to prevent this issue. 

Most of the country's I've looked at exporting to will require a destructive test that will include testing for EC, just fyi. 

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13 hours ago, indyspirits said:

Regarding fermaid-K...   Google is your friend

I don't follow where you going with that

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11 hours ago, nabtastic said:

I don't follow where you going with that

You dont need to pay a premium for fermaid-k, just make your own from (basically) deactivated yeast, vitamin b complex, DAP, and a bit of mag sulphate.

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On 3/15/2017 at 2:32 PM, nabtastic said:

https://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminants/ChemicalContaminants/ucm078546.htm

DAP and urea should not be used in the same yeast nutrient mixture.  I have not (knowingly) purchased any blends but if you know of some please let us know to prevent this issue. 

I have found listed as an ingredient for BSG, Kent and LD Carson. I guess I was buying mixes and not paying that much attention to it. They also have non-mixed versions. 

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Nabtastic called it, at least in part. When you're doing strictly barley malt mashes, which we do a lot of, you need no nutrients at all. In fact, for us, our barley malt fermentations are as fast as anything I've ever seen, just a bit over two days, and certainly faster than any sugar wash with high added nutrients.

We aren't doing any other grain mashes, but I did a lot of bourbon washes in the past, and they also fermented well with no added nutrients.

I heard someone once, I think a yeast company rep, say that barley and grapes are yeasts very best friend, and everything that yeast could desire, but for anything else you may need to add nutrients.

It's worked for me.

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