whiskeytango

Still size and output

9 posts in this topic

Ok so a pretty general question but just a show of hand or posts with answers.  

Can some of you tell me

1 - Still size/mash volume 

2 - % alcohol of said wash

3 - total gallons collected at 120 proof 

 

Just trying to get an idea of say a 450 gallon still that gets filled with a 10% wash will result in X amount of 120 proof to put in a barrel.  I want to match my still size to a barrel or a little over a day production. Just done want to end up a gallon short on my runs. 

I know the simple math on this says the 10% wash will yield in theory 45 gallons of pure alcohol but we all know it doesn't work like that.  So my guess is that it will actually yield closer to 45 gallons of ~ 160 p that will need ~15 gallons of water to get it into the 120 range.   So my 450 gallon run will fill a fair amount over a barrel.  

 

Any real world answers appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are some more issues here too, like how the still is setup, hybrid vs pure pot, how clean your cuts are, etc...

Our real world numbers, we run a 30 gallon beer (30 gallons of volume per bushel) so our mash varies from 7.5% for rye to 9% for bourbon. We do 500 gallons a day on a hybrid, single pass, and we see between 3.8 to 4.5 pg/bushel of hearts. So 16.66 bushels per day, results in 63 to 75 PGs, or a barrel and change a day.

Running pure pot double distilled, we see about 70% of the mash PGs make it to hearts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My numbers line up at 70% as well of PG in on the spirit run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Tom Lenerz said:

There are some more issues here too, like how the still is setup, hybrid vs pure pot, how clean your cuts are, etc...

Our real world numbers, we run a 30 gallon beer (30 gallons of volume per bushel) so our mash varies from 7.5% for rye to 9% for bourbon. We do 500 gallons a day on a hybrid, single pass, and we see between 3.8 to 4.5 pg/bushel of hearts. So 16.66 bushels per day, results in 63 to 75 PGs, or a barrel and change a day.

Running pure pot double distilled, we see about 70% of the mash PGs make it to hearts.

Yeah i know there are more variables, really almost to many to consider all the options,   Just trying to get a good idea as to if a 450 gallons still properly ran with a decent mash could yield 53 gallons or so of 120 proof 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am averaging around 11-12% return on my stripping runs.  I have a small setup.  I usually put 80 gallons of wash into a 100 gallon pot still and end up with 9-10 proof gallons.  Depending on how hot I run it and how far into the tails I go I will get around 75-80 proof result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another datum, if all very ballpark: If I potstill a 10% wash (say 100 gallons for giggles) to a final head temp of 99C, I'll have pretty much all the origonal ethanol in the collected distillate, AND the ABV of that distillate will be, very roughly again, 50%. If I have all the ethanol, 10% of 100 or 10 gallons, in a a 50% mixture, than i have collected 20 gallons of distillate, approximately, or 1/5 of the original still charge.

Now that's a stripping run, with no feints separation, and you can argue that 99C is too far, and that my numbers are only approximate (and they are, but pretty close), but the above scenario is a good place to start when trying to predict an outcome.

How much you set a side as feints depends mostly on 2 things, your fermentation and your palate so your real numbers may vary a lot.

Edited by Cultus Bay Distillery
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cultus, my numbers with stripping runs look quite different than yours. In a simple pot still (meaning no intentional reflux) we'd collect closer to a 1/3 of the original vol at closer to 35%. 3 Stripping runs + spirit run feints = full still volume for 2nd distillation. 70% of total PG as hearts yield is ballpark as well. 

On our hybrid 4 plate still if we did a stripping run we get about 1/4 the original volume the original volume at about 40%. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few constants I've used, and confirmed:

  • You yield 11% of your kettle volume in finished whiskey. This is double pot stilling with minimal reflux. A column with proper deph control will yield you about 16-17% kettle volume in finished whiskey in one run. Assuming 9-10% distillers beer. variability to the above comes from your actual ferment ABV.
  • For every 100 G of still volume you can expect (roughly) around 500 bottles of white dog/unaged at 80 proof per week (5 days). This is assuming you're running a single run through column. I've found this to be spot on.
  • To predict finished whiskey bottles at 80 proof take the above bottles-per-run and account for 10% loss the first year then 3% annually beyond that. This varies depending on climate. Those 500 bottles per 100 G kettle volume look like 410 bottles in 4 years.
  • To change any of those numbers (like bottle proof) use the equation [concentration 1][volume 1] = [concentration 2][volume 2]. So those 410 aged bottles at 100 proof would be: [80p][410btls] = [100p][x] which is: 328btls of 4 year old whiskey at 100 proof per 100 G of still volume. If you have a 450G still, divide by 100 and multiply by the 328 btls we figured out above and you can produce 1476 bottles of 4 year old whiskey per week...which you can sell in 4 years.
  • The equation i used does NOT account for volume loss when you blend water with ethanol. It is significant, and it will cause these numbers to be lower. Tons of variables to account for. ROUGH numbers we're working with here.

As your example of a 450G still you're looking at ~72 proof gallons per run. You would produce around 2200 bottles at 80 proof per week on a 5 day single run schedule. We average about 58 proof gallons per 53G barrel so you're looking at 6.8 barrels per week if you batch 5 runs then barrel at 115. 120 puts you at 5.7 barrels per week (roughly).

In terms of stripping runs, 20% of kettle volume is about what we yield pretty consistently. We kill it at a TP of below 15 at the parrot. Not worth my time beyond that.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy, I think the difference between your potstill stripping runs and mine are are simply a matter of how far you take the distillation before you shut it down. Making the assumption that most (but certainly not all!) of your alcohol has been collected by the time you've collected 20% of your wash volume, then (with a 10% wash) 1/5 volume at 50% and 1/3 volume at 30% is pretty much the same thing. Understand I'm talking rough approximations, but not far off for a sanity check.

As far as %s of heads, hearts, and tails in a final spirit run, that depends a lot on your fermentations and how you distill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now