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Absinthe


JohnD

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I make Polish/Slavik flavored vodkas (called Nalevki) that come from an old tradition of blending/steeping and aging from Poland all through to Russia. When we travel there, one of my greatest pleasures is going to relatives and friends' houses and tasting everyones recipes, some of which are handed down through families for generations.

One of the things that took me by surprise was that wormwood grows everywhere and one of the most common recipes is called Piolunuwka(dangerous to pronounce these Polish words), which is made with wormwood and other herbs. Most of them are pretty indelicate, and wouldn't be considered even a relative of absinthe, but I think it's interesting that the tradition of mixing and flavoring lives on there.

I made one but the only person who could stomach it was my uncle who swore it was good for digestion. I think it's closer to paint thinner than absinthe.

Am I correct in understanding that the psychotropic claims about wormwood and absinthe are false? I had read at some point that the only ones that had any of that were made with substitutions that were dangerous and the likelihood was that the effects were from toxicity.

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Am I correct in understanding that the psychotropic claims about wormwood and absinthe are false?

Absinthe has always been a subject of interest to me, after all it is the holy grail of every craft distiller. I have collected (and GC/MS tested) a number of absinthe's from all over (with the exception of the recent US arrivals). I ponder the following;

  • I think there is sufficient scientific evidence to suggest that alpha-Thujone (the active ingredient in wormwood) is psycoactive
  • Absinthe is usually made by one of two ways
    • Maceration of the botanicals, then distillation and subsequent colouring (like a distilled gin), lets call this a distilled absinthe
    • Maceration of the botanicals, then bottling (like an infused vodka), call it a compounded absinthe

    [*]Distilled absinthe is considered the more tradditional and better product, the compunded version I found to be very rough and far too astringent to be drunk with any ammount of sugar.

    [*]As alpha-thujone has a boiling point of 201C, I can not see how it would carry over in a distilled absinthe. Considering its molecular weight of 152, the chances of it forming either a lower boiling point azetrope that would boil off sooner is also unliekely.

    [*]I suggest that good distilled absinthe's contain little or no thujone, and it is the cheaper compunded absinthe that does contain thujone.

    [*]I have several compunded and distilled absinthe's that support this point, but I also have two tradditional French absinthe's from the old Combier Distillery that have over 30mg/L of Thurjone. So how do they do it?

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From research I have read, absinthe is usually distilled with botanicals first, then infused again with a small amount of other/ additional botanicals to get color, flavors, and scents. If wormwood is used in the secondary infusion you could have a distilled absinthe with higher thujone levels.

Absinthe has always been a subject of interest to me, after all it is the holy grail of every craft distiller. I have collected (and GC/MS tested) a number of absinthe's from all over (with the exception of the recent US arrivals). I ponder the following;

  • I think there is sufficient scientific evidence to suggest that alpha-Thujone (the active ingredient in wormwood) is psycoactive
  • Absinthe is usually made by one of two ways
    • Maceration of the botanicals, then distillation and subsequent colouring (like a distilled gin), lets call this a distilled absinthe
    • Maceration of the botanicals, then bottling (like an infused vodka), call it a compounded absinthe

    [*]Distilled absinthe is considered the more tradditional and better product, the compunded version I found to be very rough and far too astringent to be drunk with any ammount of sugar.

    [*]As alpha-thujone has a boiling point of 201C, I can not see how it would carry over in a distilled absinthe. Considering its molecular weight of 152, the chances of it forming either a lower boiling point azetrope that would boil off sooner is also unliekely.

    [*]I suggest that good distilled absinthe's contain little or no thujone, and it is the cheaper compunded absinthe that does contain thujone.

    [*]I have several compunded and distilled absinthe's that support this point, but I also have two tradditional French absinthe's from the old Combier Distillery that have over 30mg/L of Thurjone. So how do they do it?

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Artemesia absinthium was never used in the coloring step.

None of the cheap products of the Belle Epoque have come down to us. The French Government of 1915 paid the absinthe distillers for their product as industrial alcohol, for use in supporting the war effort. There is no evidence whatsoever from texts, product literature and the like, to indicate that absinthe was ever made through simple maceration. At least not after the development of distillation techniques allowing production of trois-six spirit.

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I think there is sufficient scientific evidence to suggest that alpha-Thujone (the active ingredient in wormwood) is psycoactive

Psychoactive and psychedelic are two different things. Any compound in high enough concentrations is going to be technically psychoactive, but the myth that surrounds absinthe insinuates that it's some sort of recreational mind-altering drug, which it isn't and never was (aside from ethanol).

This is a post-1970s, LSD-era, misinterpretation of 19th century doctor's references to chronic, acute alcoholics suffering dementia and terrifying hallucinations while under observation in mental hospitals. This is probably because they were put on the wagon cold-turkey and were suffering the DTs. Also there were, as now, cheap knockoffs of dubious contents. The difference is that back then those contents were things like copper sulphate and antimony chloride. Nowadays Czech absinth producers very likely use artificial means to boost thujone content. Thujone is a convulsant and neurotoxin, yes, but none of its effects would be considered recreational by a rational person.

Absinthe is usually made by one of two ways

• Maceration of the botanicals, then distillation and subsequent colouring (like a distilled gin), lets call this a distilled absinthe.

• Maceration of the botanicals, then bottling (like an infused vodka), call it a compounded absinthe

The first is true, but as DP points out, no absinthes were made by simple maceration. The simple fact is that absinthium wormwood is far too bitter to be palatable in the amounts we know were used in absinthe, around 25 grams per liter. Piołunówka, which is made by simple maceration, is an entirely different category of spirit and would be classed more as a bitters—and yes, it would be good for the digestion and stimulate the appetite. However, it takes more than the simple inclusion of absinthium wormwood to make the drink we know as absinthe. There have been hundreds of drinks through the ages which used absinthium, but the "absinthe" of the Belle Époque phenomena is a specific category of spirit: a distilled, unsweetened, wormwood-flavored anis aperitif.

A compounded absinthe would be what some today call an "oil-mix" and there exist numerous historic formulas for those. This is where previously-distilled essential oils were mixed with spirits in order to approximate the flavor of distilled absinthe. They were considered inferior.

As alpha-thujone has a boiling point of 201C, I can not see how it would carry over in a distilled absinthe.
Well, molecular bonding can work wonders in that regard, but as it happens, thujone does indeed stay in the pot for the most part. The first thing to come over of all the botanicals is the fresh, herbal, minty-camphory, wormwood aroma and flavor; then the other oils, with anethole pulling up the rear. Details can be found in the attached paper.
I suggest that good distilled absinthe's contain little or no thujone, and it is the cheaper compunded absinthe that does contain thujone.
Yes on one; no on two.
I have several compunded and distilled absinthe's that support this point, but I also have two tradditional French absinthe's from the old Combier Distillery that have over 30mg/L of Thurjone. So how do they do it?
Which ones? 30mg/l still isn't that much and is within the EU limits. A study published in 2004 showed that of 25 people tested, 22 were unable to correctly identify 3 drinks they had been given of ethanol containing: 0, 10, and 100mg/l of alpha-thujone.
From research I have read, absinthe is usually distilled with botanicals first, then infused again with a small amount of other/ additional botanicals to get color, flavors, and scents. If wormwood is used in the secondary infusion you could have a distilled absinthe with higher thujone levels.
The wormwood used in the secondary maceration is Artemisia pontica, aka Roman Wormwood, aka Petite Wormwood, with Artemisia absinthium being Grande Wormwood. Pontica contains negligible amounts of thujone. The other customary plants were Hyssop and Lemon Balm.

Basically, the absinthe-as-exotic-drug thing is a hoax. It's just really interesting booze.

thujone_distillation_behaviour.pdf

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As alpha-thujone has a boiling point of 201C, I can not see how it would carry over in a distilled absinthe. Considering its molecular weight of 152, the chances of it forming either a lower boiling point azetrope that would boil off sooner is also unliekely.

Why would that be true based on it's molecular mass?

Anethole (C10H12O) has a molecular mass of 148, and a boiling point of 234º C., and when run properly has enough come over the lyne arm into the receiver to allow absinthe to louche.

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  • 1 month later...

Here's the full text in PDF.

This is probably one of the most significant studies done on absinthe. It doesn't reveal much that we didn't already know from previous studies and independent research over the last eight years or so, but its value is that it sampled a broad spectrum of pre-ban products and gathered this information in one place.

Abstract for those who don't want to read the whole paper yet:

Chemical Composition of Vintage Preban Absinthe with Special Reference to Thujone, Fenchone, Pinocamphone, Methanol, Copper, and Antimony Concentrations

by Dirk W. Lachenmeier, David Nathan-Maister, Theodore A. Breaux, Eva-Maria Sohnius, Kerstin Schoeberl, and Thomas Kuballa

Published in Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, April 2008

Abstract:

Thirteen samples of authentic absinthe dating from the preban era (i.e., prior to 1915) were analyzed for parameters that were hypothesized as contributing to the toxicity of the spirit, including naturally occurring herbal essences (thujone, pinocamphone, fenchone), methanol, higher alcohols, copper, and antimony. The total thujone content of preban absinthe was found to range between 0.5 and 48.3 mg/L, with an average concentration of 25.4 20.3 mg/L and a median concentration of 33.3 mg/L. The authors conclude that the thujone concentration of preban absinthe was generally overestimated in the past. The analysis of postban (1915–1988) and modern commercial absinthes (2003–2006) showed that the encompassed thujone ranges of all absinthes are quite similar, disproving the supposition that a fundamental difference exists between preban and modern absinthes manufactured according to historical recipes. Analyses of pinocamphone, fenchone, base spirits, copper, and antimony were inconspicuous. All things considered, nothing besides ethanol was found in the absinthes that was able to explain the syndrome "absinthism".

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have worked in the Herbal extract industry for 13 years. Wormwood has always been a big seller. We grow and process all of our wormwood by hand. The process is we cut the plant whole, dry it, and sift the herb from the stem. This process can be extremely toxic without the proper ventilation and dust masks. With that said, even with a dust mask, large amounts of dust are inhaled. I am speaking from personal experience when i say that wormwood will have a narcotic effect on the body if enough is ingested. And it wasnt necessarily a good narcotic feeling, but i felt looped all that nite. I think it is the combo of the alcohol and the thujone that have given wormwood a bad name.

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You're welcome; my pleasure.

I have worked in the Herbal extract industry for 13 years. Wormwood has always been a big seller. We grow and process all of our wormwood by hand. The process is we cut the plant whole, dry it, and sift the herb from the stem. This process can be extremely toxic without the proper ventilation and dust masks. With that said, even with a dust mask, large amounts of dust are inhaled. I am speaking from personal experience when i say that wormwood will have a narcotic effect on the body if enough is ingested. And it wasnt necessarily a good narcotic feeling, but i felt looped all that nite. I think it is the combo of the alcohol and the thujone that have given wormwood a bad name.

Caffeine will have an effect if enough is ingested, so will sugar. If you read the study you'll understand that thujone is not very relevant to absinthe, as there was never that much in it in the first place.

I'm speaking from experience as well when I say that I have drunk literally hundreds of glasses of authentic absinthe in the last few years and never hallucinated or had any other drug-like effect. The most pronounced effect was a simple lack of the sluggishness that normally comes with ethanol intoxication—at first. There is a clarity of mind normally absent when drinking beer, bourbon or tequila. Hundreds of other regular absinthe drinkers report the same.

This effect is the opposite of a narcotic, which dulls and confuses the senses, like opiates.

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It was many years ago when the dust intoxication happened, so my memories may be clouded, but 7 hours of wormwood dust going in my nose did have some effect on me. The taste stays in the sinuses for a few days as well. Its actually the reason that I have a taste for wormwood. But having never tried Absinthe I cant comment on its effects. Thanks for the link to the study.

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