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  1. Today
  2. jrfalcon

    50ml miniature bottles

    ri, mvaldrow@comcast.net, looking for glass, thanks
  3. Finally, a useful post on this forum. Don't try to find me.
  4. Yesterday
  5. et1883

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    Perfect reading for the weekend! Thanks again!
  6. Hudson bay distillers

    New startup question about setting up

    our engineer set our place up exactly like what you described paul . our building inspector would blow a gasket if our panel box was beside our still. i guess there different inspectors for different parts of the province .
  7. Hi all, I am using a closed loop water chiller system for my distillery and wanted to see what other folks are doing to treat the water in their closed loop system. Can anyone share what they do to keep the system from becoming a biological science experiment? I was thinking about chlorine, but not sure about the long term effects of chlorine going through copper and stainless equipment. Any advice would be appreciated! Cheers, Josh
  8. Southernhighlander

    New startup question about setting up

    Oh sure, I agree.
  9. Thatch

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    Whoops, the link I sent should have been helpful but this is the Dalkita link. http://www.americancraftspirits.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Safety-Code-Breaking-Barrels.pdf
  10. Odin

    What ever happened to iStill?

    More on our activities on the Indian sub-continent: https://istillblog.com/2018/05/26/istill-representation-in-india/ Regards, Odin.
  11. Hudson bay distillers

    New startup question about setting up

    not every area has the same rules tho
  12. Southernhighlander

    New startup question about setting up

    richard, I'm sorry, i lost track that you were in South Africa where the rules may be different. Here in the US the area 6 ft away horizontally from any part of the still, 3' above the floor in that horizontal space and 24" above any part of the still, is considered a class 1 division 2 hazardous environment. If you have an agitator, it needs to be explosion proof. Your control panel would need to be more than 6' away from the still unless it is explosion proof. If it is 7 ft away and outside the C1-D2 area it should still be at least NEMA4. Contactors do not create heat so you can use them in a fully enclosed NEMA4 panel without cooling fans. We use contactors and SSRs in our panels. The SSRs are 40 amp and the amp draw per element is 13.26 at 240v 3 phase and 22.92 amps at 240v 3 phase. We also build heating systems for 208v and 480v in single and 3 phase. We do not do 600v heating systems. Some of our larger stills have an inner boiler thickness of over 8mm. It sounds like you are well on your way. I understand why you want to go with direct electric heat and your points concerning direct electric heat are well taken. Many people doing all liquid washes especially, barley based, off the grain washes share your same views. I bet if we counted all of the stills around the world, there would be several times as many stills fired by direct electric heat than Baine Marie and steam stills combined. Most Distillery Equipment Vendors sell direct fied electric stills and they are the bread and butter for home distilling equipment vendors. With tens of thousands of them out there, so far everything seems to be going okay, knock on wood. In fact I think that there are a lot more instances of pressure canners blowing up and injuring people, and there are certainly a lot more instances of propane fired Turkey fryers going up in flames. All distillers should know that no still is absolutely 100% safe. In sort of an abstract way, a still is no different than a chain saw. Even the best made stills and chains saws are only as safe as the operator makes them. I spent years as a logger and then many more years as a head sawer, working a few inches away from a 52" diameter circular saw blade spinning at 600 rpms. I have a great respect for anything that can kill me or hurt me badly. When working around dangerous equipment you should never lose that perspective. If you become complacent forgetting that your still and the ethanol it produces can hurt you, that's when things can go wrong very quickly. All of that being said, are well built direct fire electric stills more dangerous than well built baine marie and steam fired stills? With all of the variables involved I think a lot more study needs to be done to ascertain that. I would say that if someone runs the direct fire electric still properly they can certainly mitigate the danger to a level where they can use their direct fired electric still in the same mannor every day for 30 or 40 years and never get hurt. I used chainsaws to cut very large trees and a giant circular saw to saw them up for over 30 years and was never injured, because I thought about the power of what I was truly dealing with every day and never became complacent.
  13. MG Thermal Consulting

    New startup question about setting up

    Class I Div 2 industrial users have gone to pressure positive inert gas purge systems go air cannot leak into panel and cause a spark and explosion. Last one I quoted, an electrician was doing work on the substation about 75 yards away from the plant where they were going to put the chiller to avoid cost....well a garage door was opened at the plant resulting in gas moving to the substation causing an explosion and fire that killed the electrician and put the company permanently out of business. Never underestimate.
  14. richard1

    New startup question about setting up

    I am of the opinion that with steam, you do not have as exacting temperature control together with response as compared to electrical elements. More importantly so, I am do not have steam and nor an I planning to install a steam generator. With the Bain Marie, you do not get the Maillard reaction. My wall thickness is substantially thicker than Chinese imports. The boiler is 3mm throughout. I only use stainless steel fittings so with respect to my SS pressure relief I have an option of either using adjustable down to 0 bar or the fixed unit which I am presently favouring because it functions both as safety over pressure at 1 bar (a little too high) as well as vacuum safety. I further am comfortable with the latter because I have additionally internal presure monitoring within the kettle via the PLC / pressure transmitter and this is furter interlocked with both heating and kettle functioning. Yes, but I have concerns. The control panel is intended to be at least +5m away from still. I am not using the baby SSR's as everyone uses where you can stick the cooling fins external to the panel but rather a large single 30A unit for the three phases and for sure this is going to get warm. This unit is equipped with monitoring and other features. So the jury is presently out on cooling and hence the proposed distance. The only control sitting on the still is the HMI. The entire still control and its heating manipulation will be from this HMI.
  15. et1883

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    Thanks, Thatch!
  16. Thatch

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    Plastic totes are only approved for transport but you can walk into most any distillery and see them stacked floor to ceiling. If a fire were to break out they melt and help to fuel the fire. There may be specialized totes that will not melt but common plastic IBC totes are a problem. You need to consult with the AHJ (fire marshall) to see what he will allow. This is not under TTB's jurisdiction, it is part of the building codes. The 240 gallon number is correct but can be doubled when you store in the containers that are listed in NFPA 30. Dalkita is a respected expert in this matter. The link takes you to a .pdf that attempts to make sense of the various specs that are in play. http://www.americancraftspirits.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Safety-Code-Breaking-Barrels.pdf. If you wish to store in 55 gallon stainless, Skolnik's probably your best bet. If you want larger, Paul will take care of you.
  17. Southernhighlander

    Anyone have experience w/ Affordable Distillery Equipment LLC??

    Below are some of the items that we completed this week. All 3 of the complete stills are one of a kinds. The still pot is a 45 gallon jacketed baine marie that a customer has his own column for.
  18. Last week
  19. Southernhighlander

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    We also supply 240 gallon custom tanks that are stackable and rated for spirit storage.
  20. et1883

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    Must admit some of this seems less than clear, and so I welcome comments on what TTB (at their booth) at ADI in Portland told us -- that common plastic IBC totes were approved for bulk storage, which of course is not what Thatch has quoted from NFPA 30 above, or what Paul from Affordable (also above) has said. They (TTB) also said that the MAQ was 240 gallons per zone (with up to 4 zones/facility - each sprinklered and vented), though I have heard lower volumes quoted also. Does NFPA 9.4.1 refer to storage or transportation? Thanks in advance,
  21. Southernhighlander

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    My tanks are 250, 550 and 750 gallons and they are stackable. They are rated for spirit storage and are stainless steel. My pricing is much better than Skolniks per gallon and my tanks will store more ethanol in a much smaller space than the skolnik tanks.
  22. Southernhighlander

    New startup question about setting up

    I agree with everything Blue Star has said including his advice to the OP Firefighter, I am sorry that we got off track. To reiterate, whoever you decide to get your spirit still from, it should be jacketed. Whatever you do, do not put 85% in the pot of a direct fired electric still. For vodka it is best to run low wines at between 25% and 35% in a jacketed still, with 20 plates, a hybrid column equivalent to that or a packed column equivalent to that but remember that packed columns lack versatility . Steam is always best but a Baine Marie is a necessity for what you want to do if you cannot afford steam.
  23. Thatch

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    This is what you need. This is directly from NFPA 30. Skolnik has what you need. http://www.skolnik.com/ 9.4.1* Only the following approved containers, intermediate bulk containers, and portable tanks shall be used for Class I, Class II, and Class IIIA liquids: (1) Metal containers, metal intermediate bulk containers, and metal portable tanks meeting the requirements of and containing products authorized by the U.S. Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials Regulations in Title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, Parts 100–199, or by Part 6 of the UN Recommendations on the Transport of Dangerous Goods
  24. captnKB

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    single wall tanks that are UL listed should meet your fire marshalls needs. For tanks that size either XP vacuum type exhaust or venting outside are both safe options to prevent the accumulation of flammable vapors
  25. Southernhighlander

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    We can supply you with tanks with the UL listings needed for ethanol storage. Beverage ethonal is not exempt and can not be stored in plastic. You must store in stainless tanks with the correct UL listing. Email me paul@distillery-equipment.com
  26. nabtastic

    spirit holding tanks - codes?

    Hi all, We are looking to upgrade our spirit tanks and I can't tell if we need double walled tanks, exterior vents, etc. I'm referencing NFPA 30 and UL-142. We're talking about blending tanks and holding tanks in the 1000-1500 gallon range. Is potable ethanol exempt from these? Also, do you have recommendations for suppliers of these tanks if that is what I need? Cheers
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  28. nabtastic

    STATES REGULATING BARREL AGED COCKTAILS

    ^ that's exactly why my position has changed. I don't like that they've done it - it seems against the "spirit" or the regs (pun intended) but they've apparently been in compliance so it's whatever. Dunbar knows the regs better than I do and I've learned a lot about the regulations, the industry, and life over the past several years [enough to know that there is a never ending stream of caveats]. At the time, I was definitely an amateur.
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