Local Zoning in NWPA

[jessicajlemmon]

Well the local zoning boards here are giving me fits. I'm a licensed architect and I can't seem to get the zoning boards to understand the process and how we can mix the 'light manufacturing' with a tasting room and cocktails. (Very conservative area.)

As of right now if I can convince them that the craft distilling (We're looking at a 250 gallon set up) can be described as something other than 'light industrial/manufacturing' or somehow justify that it's an incidental use to the B-1/Mercantile use group, I might be able to get somewhere. (Almost had them convinced it was food prep which would fall under the Restaurant usage the property we're looking at was cleared for...)

I saw in passing that someone said by keeping under the quantities that trigger the requirement for fire protection, it also gives you leeway to argue that it's an incidental use to the Mercantile use group.

Does anyone have any more information on that? Or success with that? The current property we're looking at is in a fairly rurual area and the township supervisors have been there for about 40 years... not the more progressive bunch.

I don't want to commit to a property until I can find a damn place that will allow it, natrually. This has already wasted about 6 months of my time, being approved twice, then immediately over turned.

[HedgeBird]

I forget all the exact classifications, but I believe my building was given a manufacturing designation (F1 perhaps) and the tasting room/retail space was allowed as an Accessory usage and required no physical separation. Not sure if that is helpful info at all as it sure seems like you know way more about this stuff than I do!

[Roger]

I believe the "incidental" use is only when the "higher classification" area is 10% or less of the entire space. You need to talk to them about separating the areas, for example get your F1 for the production area, then mercantile for the rest.

Prost

[OldSpye]

I think Roger is pretty much spot on. Our F1 distilling space is being considered incidental to the remainder of the building, which is warehouse space. In talking to the local zoning and code enforcement folks, they seem more than amenable to a tasting room (although it's not in our Y1 plan), leveraging the notion of incidental use.

[jessicajlemmon]

It will have to be F1 per IBC for permitting, but the zoning is a slightly different beast. They don't like the work 'manufacturing'. (Mind you this is a fairly isolated site that wouldn't bother anyone...)

There have been 'issues' in the area in recent years with adult entertainment and bottle clubs trying to move in because of the loose zoning. They managed to squash the bottle clubs and their first knee jerk reaction was that was this was. It is not, which I explained. 3 times.

I think they're willing to work with me I just need to give them enough of a plasusible excuse to cover their politican behinds. This whole issues stemmed from the fact that the only person in the Zoning department is 80 years old and won't give out any answers... just to give you an idea.

This building would be close to 50/50 Retail/Manufacturing, so arguing the incidiental is going to be tough, but I may still try based on open quantity alone.

[HedgeBird]

There is a distinction between "incidental" and "accessory" right?

My understanding is that incidental allows for small areas of greater risk but that they do require additional measures like separation to address the higher fire risk... so like a boiler room.

Accessory allows for higher risk without separation; but is limited to the 10% area restriction.

Non separated occupancies get you past the 10% restriction, still no need for separation of the spaces but everything must meet the requirements of the higher classification?

So perhaps I did not have an issue as I was able to get Non separated occupancies status since I have sprinklers in my tasting room?

[TetonDistillery]

It really just depends on the jurisdiction and how eager the bureaucrats are to help new businesses get started. That leadership comes from the local city/county council and mayor. Do they want new businesses forming, or are they indifferent. That attitude trickles down to the staff.

We are in the process of putting a tasting room in Jackson Wyoming to take advantage of the millions of tourists visiting Yellowstone during the summer and skiing in Jackson during the winter. Our distillery is just over the border in Idaho. The staff in Jackson has been great. They are recommending to the town council to change an ordinance to allow what we want to do. It should go right through within the next few months with no opposition. They have an ordinance for wineries and they are just going to amend that for us and allow distillery satellite tasting rooms also.

We will have a manufacturer's license from the state and local authorities, but then we are placing it directly in the retail section of town. The city staff loves the idea and are helping 100%. It really helps to have them on your side looking for a way to make things happen as opposed to looking for ways to create roadblocks.

[Jedd Haas]

It really helps to have them on your side looking for a way to make things happen as opposed to looking for ways to create roadblocks.

This is an important point and one of the very first things anyone who is considering opening a distillery should look into. If the local Big Fish aren't thrilled with the possibility of your distillery opening in "their" small pond, look for a friendlier location.

[jessicajlemmon]

So this is a fun little twist....

Muncipality #1 (where my family has lived since the 1890's) shot us down once already after saying how great it sounded and how they were totally behind us...

Muncupality #2 (where I went to K-12) Was behind us, but then got nervous about the Manufacturing in a Business zone.

After that meeting, we made note that in Municipality #1 there was a cider mill/general store constructed in B-1, within the past few years. VERY similar set up/use/size. While I'm not looking to build in #1 at this point, it's adjacent to #2 so I thought it might be a good example for local precedent.

After a week of playing tag with the architect, zoning officer and township supervisor of #1 - my inquiry about how they processed that project got the following response:

"At this point, I cannot say why, possibly just an oversight at the time they went in. However, a past error does not set a precedent for future development. "

So... the cider mill sold the whole package under B-1 "somehow" without any special exceptions. (The mill was a big deal at the time because it burned down and wasn't allowed to re-build on it's original site due to.. .zoning issues...) But I was told that if I wanted to build, I would HAVE to apply for one.

That said, I can go to #2 and say: Look, they built this here and didn't need anything special. (And if the press the issue I can at least point out that #1 does have a venue for a special exception.)

Ay yi yi.

[TetonDistillery]

That sounds like a big mess. Do you have any other options besides municipality #1 and #2?

[jessicajlemmon]

That starts pushing me pretty far out of town, but there are options. We know a brewer in another small town that's not too far away, and he's going to keep an ear out for properties. The town loves the business he's brought in, so it would be a nice association.

I'm meeting with a person from a local development authority today...

[philf34]

Good Luck!!