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The microdistilling myth---- comments?


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Chuck,

Do you really get the sense that micro distillers are trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes by masquerading 3 month-old "immature" whiskeys for 4 year-old "fully aged" ones? I don't think that anyone's that naive (on either side of the transaction). And if they are, they're businesses will not be long for this world.

I think what's really happening is a free-form, messy exploration of whiskey's natural boundaries. We probably won't know for a few years still which areas will fill a need in the marketplace and thrive, but the outlines of a couple of strategies seem to have emerged.

First is white whiskey. It's how whiskey was initially made and drunk, so it's valuable for bringing back an old time style, and, if done right, can deliver what a growing number of bartenders seems to be seeking -- vodka with flavor. Will it tend toward moonshine, with its burn and fiery temperament -- a distillate that can rightfully be called immature, as it's made to taste best after spending years in wood -- or a more refined distillate that is not made for wood aging at all? Can't wait to find out.

Second is minimally-aged whiskey. This style doesn't seem have an established history in whiskey, but does in other spirits like tequila and rum. Right now, this style seems to be driven as much by producers need to put out something quickly, as by an honest embrace of its potential to balance the flavor of the distillate with the flavor of wood. Again, where this one goes is anyone's guess but there is precedent and consumer desire for this general approach in other types of liquor.

Calling these types of whiskey "immature," however, is unfair because many of these whiskeys aren't really "young" in the sense that they've skipped necessary time in barrels. They're just not meant to be aged long or at all. They're their own entities -- admittedly not fully defined or developed yet -- but already distinct and with a different and valid point of view.

They're the "blancos" and "reposados" of whiskey, and calling them out for not being aged longer makes about as little sense to many of us as criticizing blanco and reposado tequilas for not being anejos.

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I don't think any micro distiller is pulling the wool over my eyes, but I am a well educated consumer. If you are proud of the product you are producing and want us consumers to judge it on it's own merits and not against an established category, then please tell us about it on your label. Tell me if a microbrewery mashed your product or if you did so yourself. Tell me if you bought whiskey from another distiller and blended with your distilled product. Tell me if you used new or used barrels or something besides Oak. Tell me what grains were used. Tell me how long it was aged. Tell me the distillation proof. Tell me why and what you were shooting for.

If you are making Granny Smith and the big guys are make Red Delicious apples, then tell me the above so I can judge your product on it's own merits. Those Red Delicious apples have some pretty clear rules they must follow. Some of these other apple types may be great, but I want to know what I'm biting into first.

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Wadewood,

I don't get the sense that this is a strictly "truth in advertising" issue because:

1. TTB rules require sub-categorizing whiskey into a number of mash- and age-related types that help the public figure out what they're drinking,

2. A large number of small whiskey makers actually put very granular information about their production and aging processes on their labels and

3. White whiskey wouldn't have caused such a stir, since everyone could clearly see that the liquor wasn't aged at all.

I think the underlying current in this discussion is more about tradition and taste. Understandably, micro distillers aren't big fans of current tradition, as it generally protects the interests of large producers. (We're huge fans of traditions from the days when there were lots of micro distillers, though.) Taste keeps changing and I think it's our responsibility to offer options that the public may be missing or may learn to appreciate and love in time.

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Well, Melkon, I think some of the posters in this thread are defending products thay haven't made yet.

There is nothing wrong with caveat emptor articles about micro-distilled whiskey, because people who don't know very much about how whiskey is made will tend to compare the micro product to the whiskeys they know, like Jim Beam and Jack Daniel's, and will expect -- because they do believe in the whole 'small is better' thing -- that the micro product will be recognizably better in the context of what they know. If what they taste is so different from what they expect that they can't contextualize it, their reaction probably will be negative. It's about managing expectations.

Actually, lightly-aged whiskey has a long history just like unaged whiskey does, and in this country it was common both just after Prohibition and again just after World War II. Still today there are a few three-year-old straight bourbons. They are not, unfortunately, highly regarded and that's another consumer perception small distillers have to overcome.

One of the biggest things I object to is ill-informed bashing of the majors. I believe most of the people who attack "industrial distilling" have no real idea how those companies make their products. That's where the wool-pulling comes in, when distillers use the public's willingness to believe that 'small is better' to sell them crap. Then when the consumer says "this is crap," they try to browbeat them into believing it's ambrosia.

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Chuck,

I've got no issues with "buyer beware" or even "emperor's new clothes" type articles, as long as their fair and accurate. (I hate wasting money on junk as much as the next guy.) My biggest objections to Clay Risen's piece are that:

1. In screaming "The Microdistillery Myth" from its headline, it's grossly unfair to everyone who makes world-class micro spirits that are NOT whiskey, of which there are lots, and

2. In holding up all micro whiskeys to 4+ year old bourbons, it's setting up false comparisons (at least for many micro whiskeys).

On criticizing majors, I understand your frustrations. It's the wonderful/frustrating aspect of being young!

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I think the ability to differentiate ourselves and our products from the majors is important. And we should be able to distinguish ourselves honestly. The large whiskey producers make some very good whiskey and they do so efficiently. They have years of experience doing it. They have strong relationships with the large distributors that insures their products will be sold and reach nearly all retail stores and bars.

Like the videos "I am a craft brewer" craft distillers need to develop a brand identity of that same order. Either with the support of ADI or not.

I may often sound like I disagree with Chuck, but I actually don't on many issues. The craft distiller/small distiller "industry" is immature and sadly some of the products are not what they should be. And that's the reason I agree with the idea that it's good to start out as a hobbyist (In spite of the fact that hobby distilling is illegal) so people get some of the basic flaws out of what they make before the public sees it, and every writer says "See, that craft whiskey is crap. Told you so."

On industrial distilling, there are some differences in scale between what the large distilleries do and what I do. There may not be a lot of functional difference (after all, mashing is mashing, fermenting is fermenting). Buffalo Trace is a relatively small distillery as the majors go, I think (Chuck can correct me if I;m wrong), and a lot of their equipment dates from just after Prohibition. So in many ways fairly traditional.

When we (ADI) were on the tour at the last conference, I think they said the fermenters held 30,000 gallons each. Think they had five filled, and maybe eight total. I have eight fermenters, each capable of holding 30 gallons. Their still is a patent still with beer stripper and doubler, 60,000 gallon capacity. The beer stripper is two or three stories tall. My still is a pot still, without plates or dephlegmator, 45 gallon capacity, and it's maybe nine feet tall. I don't remember the size of their mash tun, but I think it was done under pressure, but they also mentioned a mash tun under atmospheric pressure. My mash tun is open (atmospheric pressure) and mashing is done by hand.

Anyway, I'm doing to run some mashes now. Happy New Year!

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This is an excellent discussion. Thanks cowdery, Delaware and all else for participating, it has been very interesting reading through it.

With that said, I think it is important to differentiate ourselves from the big guys. Someone mentioned that we can push the boundaries, and that is exactly what we need to do. "Extreme distilling" as we jokingly refer to it at the distillery, seems to be missing to a certain extent with the big guys. Part of it is because pushing boundaries often doesn't help the profit margin on such a large scale. A lot of new and exciting things take a hand sell, or millions of dollars. The hand sell from a craft distiller may be enough to support him, but the millions spent on advertising might never pay off for the big guys. We are able to find niches that they might never be able to exploit because of their set up.

So, lets try new things, experiment and find those niches that we need. Whiskey is a category that could use a little mix up.

(I generalize about the experimenting. I know there are some that do it such as Woodford's new Maple finished bourbon,but on a smaller scale we can still do many more different things).

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Liberty Bar - Seattle

They're the "blancos" and "reposados" of whiskey, and calling them out for not being aged longer makes about as little sense to many of us as criticizing blanco and reposado tequilas for not being anejos.

I guess where this debate is devolving towards is in the direction of individual palates. As usual, I tend to agree with Chuck that the pushed or young whiskies are...different... In my experience, new distillers really like young spirits because that's what they have been making and tasting for their term in the industry - they grow to appreciate elements of heads and tails for which the standard consumer isn't ready. But, the common drinker is not going to find a palate for these pushed whiskies anytime soon. That's just the reality as I see it. My bar is known for whisk(e)y & cocktails, and I tend to grab every new brand that I can get my hands on and taste these spirits every day to my customers (You like Blanton's? Try this Buffalo Trace Whitedog...). Only maybe 1 out of 10 times does someone want more than one glass/cocktal of the Whitedogs or pushed whiskies. Now - here's where I tend to get myself in trouble, but I'm telling you that this is the truth, and Seattle is a a very advanced town in context to our tastes for spirits. 'Microdistilling' is where the future is because innovation leads industries, but each small distiller needs to figure out what they want to distill and then...if they will be able to sell it.

As for a blanco/repasado/anejo whisk(e)y? Well, that's an apple and orange because there's a commonality to our palates that says that a delicious blanco or repasado is naturally appreciated, but I have yet to find a mass of natural appreciation for a new or pushed whisk(e)y.

As for the writer of that Atlantic piece? His main points are interesting, but his actual knowledge of spirits? Shameful. Absolutely shameful. Would the Atlantic do a piece on barbecue sauce and say, that the A1 Hickory is the best of the bunch?

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