30 replies to this topic

[Hughes]

In North Charleston, South Carolina, a company that is listed in the ADI directory called Terressentia is making some headlines locally for its finishing processes that mimic aging and distilling.  They are not actually running anything through a still, but their processes take out some of the chemicals that are normally taken out during the distillation process and they can produce a whiskey that "tastes 7-9 years old" in under a day.  I'm curious what the members on this board think about it?  

With the process and additives, I can't imagine they have an easy time with the TTB labeling requirements.  All in all, I am always one for innovations, and this looks/sounds very interesting.  Is it just business as usual, and there is no actual change, just press coverage?  If it does change anything, will it hurt the big guys?  Will it hurt them more than craft distillers?  Is there something this article left out?

http://www.charlesto...ent?oid=3056352

Curious for your responses.  I plan on wandering over to the restaurants mentioned to taste test for myself.

[Gwydion Stone]

They may have developed an innovative and efficient filtration/oxygenation process, but the rest is pure marketing.

Quote

Their secret is a patented process called Terrepure, a combination of filtration and oxidation that uses ultrasonic energy to purify distillate. The process starts with 180 to 190 proof liquor purchased from distilleries that specialize in each liquor. At Terressentia's warehouse, 250 gallon jugs of 190 proof, 100 percent blue agave tequila sit next to equally giant tubs of imported Russian vodka.

In other words, they buy the liquor in bulk then treat it and bottle it. They're bottlers, not distillers, and there's nothing new (or wrong) about that. Nor is there anything new (or right) about adding glycerine, caramel color, or traces of sugar and salt.

There's nothing new about forced oxygenation, either, whether it's accomplished through agitation by compression, spraying or ultrasonic vibrations.

 Absinthe-Oxygenator-35KB.jpg   35.69K   45 downloads

This is an "apparatus for the aging of absinthe" via oxygenation.

Here's another, used by Cusenier & Co., whose "Absinthe Oxygenée" was among the major brands of the era.

 Fritsch-26-348-Diagram.jpg   138.57K   45 downloads  Absinthe-Oxygenee-20KB.jpg   20.24K   28 downloads

[porter]

A MUST READ article for sure.

Absolutely Beautiful...From the sound of it this might be the best thing to happen to the industry yet. The little guys have had to compete with the big boys hundreds of times their size, under the exact same rules for a hundred years.

Now the ground rules are changing. These folks aren't going to be in the small market. At their rate of 60 cases an hour, their target is on the large production houses. I don't see it as a problem for the artisans though. But if I had some real money invested in Beam, Daniels, Jose, etc. I would be nervous. Can you imagine the franchise oppurtunity for this? In an open state like Missouri we could have a product on the shelf, out the front door, on the internet, and in distribution in weeks not years. And without the EPA crap the 'green' people are pushing all over.

Interesting question, how many folks in the artisan market are making 'well' spirits? That's a $15/bottle market and I don't think anyone here is at that low price point.

Quality? I can't say, haven't seen here in Missouri yet, but will be searching out when I get back east.
And it would be improper for anyone else to make a quality judgement unless they've tried them, not in comparison to artisan stuff, but compared to the market they are competeing in.

[Palmetto Coast]

Hughes, on 02 February 2011 - 09:12 AM, said:

In North Charleston, South Carolina, a company that is listed in the ADI directory called Terressentia is making some headlines locally for its finishing processes that mimic aging and distilling.  They are not actually running anything through a still, but their processes take out some of the chemicals that are normally taken out during the distillation process and they can produce a whiskey that "tastes 7-9 years old" in under a day.  I'm curious what the members on this board think about it?  

With the process and additives, I can't imagine they have an easy time with the TTB labeling requirements.  All in all, I am always one for innovations, and this looks/sounds very interesting.  Is it just business as usual, and there is no actual change, just press coverage?  If it does change anything, will it hurt the big guys?  Will it hurt them more than craft distillers?  Is there something this article left out?

http://www.charlesto...ent?oid=3056352

Curious for your responses.  I plan on wandering over to the restaurants mentioned to taste test for myself.

Hi Hughes
I had contemplated going that way a while back, and had visited the facility and done a tasting.  Contact them, they may let you taste for free as well.  That being said, I will give you my thoughts.  
First, yes, they take bulk spirits and run them through their machine and it does clean them up.  I tasted their vodka before and after, and next to another premium brand.  Theirs was definitely cleaner than the unprocessed spirit, but in my opinion, not as clean as the premium name brand.  

Rum was actually pretty good, but unfortunately I can’t remember too many of the rest.  I believe most of the spirits that won medals were flavored vodkas.  They use designer flavorings to get different tastes, as well as designer colors.  You want oak, they can add "oak flavor". You can't put an age statement on the label. You want to make a Cosmo flavored vodka, they can do it, color and all.  I believe they even submit the final formulation for you.

To get a flavor profile, you are then making flavored rum, flavored whiskey, flavored whatever, not rum, bourbon, etc.  That said, they can do spirits (such as bourbon) without flavoring.  I just don’t know how it would hold up to one that was aged.

The market is definitely there, as you can see from their expansion.  But I wouldn’t worry about them biting too deeply into either the big or the little guys.  Some folks are going to want artificially flavored fruit punch, and some will want 100% juice.

Hope this helps.

Todd

[WI Distiller]

I have no doubt that a sophisticated filtration and oxygenation set up could make vodka and flavored spirits that are just as good or better than the premium brands, but notice how none of the testimonials in the article refer to whiskey or other aged products. The article celebrates how the process eliminates the need for expensive barrel aging, then talks about how their vodka is better than Grey Goose, a product that, as we all know, requires no aging. Can oxygenating and adding bourbon essence to bulk neutral spirit make a quality whiskey? No way. It would make a weird, oak flavored vodka.
Cowdery, will you chime in on this?

[Panama Jack]

You can make a color copy of a piece of art and sell it an people will buy it. If anyone wants to pay the same price "a fool will always be soon parted from thier money." There always will be a market for the tech quik made process and one for the crafted product. The only problem exists when someone tries to pass one off from the other, which does not seem to be the issue here.

[Denver Distiller]

Did I just stumble across an article from the Onion?

So the secret to making Vodka in six hours is:  start with a bunch of vodka that someone else distilled for you?  Ok, so I guess we don't need the extra six hours.

I'm not sure that some of you paid much attention to the article or the description of what they're doing.  

They're bottling bulk spirits, folks.

[Napa Vodka]

"Better than Grey Goose"? Hmmmm.... I'd bet easily accomplishable by everyone here, so no real news there. As for the "fake" aging, I have'nt tasted their product so I cant really say for sure that its better than something that was actually aged, but I will say that there is definately something magical and special knowing your drinking something that took 10+ years to complete. It adds to the overall experience of drinking, which is why many people drink IMO.

[coop]

Denver Distiller, on 02 February 2011 - 03:15 PM, said:

Did I just stumble across an article from the Onion?

So the secret to making Vodka in six hours is:  start with a bunch of vodka that someone else distilled for you?  Ok, so I guess we don't need the extra six hours.

I'm not sure that some of you paid much attention to the article or the description of what they're doing.  

They're bottling bulk spirits, folks.

Walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, folks it is a duck. Mixing some one else's work is all it is. Coop

[tellner]

This really isn't anything new.
Sitting here on my bookshelf is a copy of Hirsch's 1937 Whiskey, Brandy & Cordials. Chapter XVII Artificial Maturing of Spirits includes among other things "sound waves" and oxygenation.

[Hewlette]

I'm the CEO of Terressentia Corporation, the company described in the article, and have read the posts here with interest. While the story is generally accurate, it has spawned some misconceptions that I would like to correct.

First, we are very careful about following TTB labeling regulations. Second, we do not artificially flavor whiskey, nor do we make it out of GNS. Third, the idea of using some form of energy driven oxygenation and filtration to improve the taste of spirits is not new but we perfected and patented a process that does just that. In short, we react away a substantial amount of the minor alcohol congeners and the free radicals that are a by-product of distillation while at the same time creating some glycerides from the acids that are present. The result is that, in the case of neutral spirits, we improve the taste better than multiple distillation or filtration can, and, in the case of young whiskies, we can replicate in a few weeks the effects of barrel aging over many years. It is true that we cannot replace the mystique of "old" but if you want the taste for a fraction of the cost of "old", we can do it.

Most of us resist change, particularly technological change, but we should think about embracing efficiency and economics when they make sense.

Earl Hewlette
earl@terressentia.com
843 225 3101

[Denver Distiller]

Hewlette, on 03 February 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

Most of us resist change, particularly technological change, but we should think about embracing efficiency and economics when they make sense.  

Respectfully, no one here is telling you that how to run your own company, and no one is resisting change.  I wish you all the success in the world.

However, I fail to see how it is that you think that you have "embraced efficiency and economics", when all you're doing is buying bulk spirits.  

In other words, it is specifically inefficient, in terms of energy and capital, to buy bulk spirits that already have all the costs associated with distilling and aging (in the case of the whiskey you're buying), and that have already been marked up in price---- and then ship them to yet another facility, add even more costs in energy, labor, and other overhead, and then stick them in the bottle.  Sounds not only a little inefficient--- that sounds very inefficient.

And your quote ""Why do you distill vodka five times and throw away 40 percent of what you started with, or put bourbon in a cellar for five years and let most of it evaporate? We said, 'Let's do it efficiently.'"   is particularly, forgive my frankness, silly.  

Why is this silly?  Because you're buying the spirits that you're calling inefficient.  What's worse, is that after you're buying that"inefficient", you're adding even more inefficiency in the form of whatever invention you've rigged up that consumes energy.  But the thing is, the reporter, bless his heart, didn't understand enough about spirits to understand this total lack of logic.

And BTW, there isn't a vodka column in the world that "throws away 40%" of the original alcohol in the ferment.   Losses greater than 1% are considered unacceptable for most plants running continuous stills, and most plants have a much lower tolerance.

More to the point, I'm curious as to how much you think it costs Diageo, to use one example, to age a liter of whiskey for 4 years?  You have to beat that cost before this even becomes a discussion.  Right now, you're buying bulk whiskey at a mark up, plus shipping, plus all your overhead.  Where do you suppose this whiskey is coming from in the 1st place?  

Good luck with your business.

[tellner]

Hewlette, on 03 February 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

Third, the idea of using some form of energy driven oxygenation and filtration to improve the taste of spirits is not new but we perfected and patented a process that does just that.  In short, we react away a substantial amount of the minor alcohol congeners and the free radicals that are a by-product of distillation while at the same time creating some glycerides from the acids that are present.  The result is that, in the case of neutral spirits, we improve the taste better than multiple distillation or filtration can, and, in the case of young whiskies, we can replicate in a few weeks the effects of barrel aging over many years.  It is true that we cannot replace the mystique of "old" but if you want the taste for a fraction of the cost of "old", we can do it.

Most of us resist change, particularly technological change, but we should think about embracing efficiency and economics when they make sense.  

I really couldn't care less about mystique. I'm more interested in quality and the science. A few years back I experimented informally with charcoal, mild heat, circulating pumps and air. Even those rough kitchen table trials gave good results.
How have your products fared in truly blind taste tests?
How do the chemical profiles compare to what you're trying to replicate?
For spirits like rum and whiskey, how much of the process goes on before the product is barreled, and how much when it's on the oak?
Do you have a patent number so that I can look at it and get my geek on?

[daveflintstone]

Wow, what's with the hostility?  This company isn't treading on your holier-than-thou craft/artisan/micro spirits production.  Are you pissed because they got great press?  Do you really expect any news article to be completely accurate regarding technical details?

Obviously they have a market that is not the high priced craft market.  They are businessmen, not artisans.

First thing I thought when I read this article was "that's sounds cool".  A man much smarter than me has perfected a technique to improve spirits without lengthy aging; terrific.  The folks who are buying it are apparently happy with the products.  I hope the people who (finally) buy my products will be just as pleased.

Denver Distiller, I can't believe you're lecturing someone on their successful business.  And, respectfully, it reads like you are telling him how to run his company.  They are buying efficiently produced bulk ingredients to efficiently create their products, without the customarily inefficient finishing required.  What's wrong with that?  Sounds logical to me.  Why does he have to beat Diageo?  Do you?  I'm not aware that Diageo is selling house brands to small restaurants.

I know about most of what I do; I know little of what others do.  It is laughable when someone insists on analyzing and critiquing another's operation based on the very information they've already deemed inaccurate.

I'm starting to grow weary of some craft distillers' budding superiority complexes regarding their production.  When you start blowing your own glass bottles and making the paper for your labels, then we'll talk.

[tellner]

daveflintstone, on 03 February 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

Wow, what's with the hostility?  This company isn't treading on your holier-than-thou craft/artisan/micro spirits production.  Are you pissed because they got great press?  Do you really expect any news article to be completely accurate regarding technical details?

...

First thing I thought when I read this article was "that's sounds cool".  A man much smarter than me has perfected a technique to improve spirits without lengthy aging; terrific.  The folks who are buying it are apparently happy with the products.  I hope the people who (finally) buy my products will be just as pleased.

Amen to both of those points. Every innovation has met with resistance. Some things were tried and died out because they just weren't improvements or were introduced at the wrong time in history. But some things really are improvements. This sounds very promising. The basic idea has a long and distinguished track record. If this works as well as it appears at first blush it could be one of those things that revolutionizes the industry like activated charcoal or column distillation. Maybe, maybe not. But it's certainly worth investigating.

[Denver Distiller]

daveflintstone, on 03 February 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

First thing I thought when I read this article was "that's sounds cool".  A man much smarter than me has perfected a technique to improve spirits without lengthy aging; terrific.  The folks who are buying it are apparently happy with the products.  I hope the people who (finally) buy my products will be just as pleased.

Mr. Flintstone, I was responding to his condescending comment "Most of us resist change, particularly technological change, but we should think about embracing efficiency and economics when they make sense."   I think that it's ok to respond to a post like that.

I'm sorry my response rubbed you the wrong way.   If the gentleman doesn't try to sell these spirits to other DSP's, there was no point to my post.  If he does, well, I don't think that I'm out of line for telling other DSP's what the score is.  I'm only trying to help.

There's no holier than thou attitude from me.  Look around ADI.  You'd be hard pressed to find a more helpful poster.  I'm here to help those who are new to the craft.... that's the only reason I'm here.  

And that's the only reason for my comments on this thread.  This story read like a sales pitch, so please accept my apologies if my post came across as hostile, but I was trying to point out what was happening to other DSP's.

[Hewlette]

tellner, on 03 February 2011 - 07:23 PM, said:

I really couldn't care less about mystique. I'm more interested in quality and the science. A few years back I experimented informally with charcoal, mild heat, circulating pumps and air. Even those rough kitchen table trials gave good results.
How have your products fared in truly blind taste tests?
How do the chemical profiles compare to what you're trying to replicate?
For spirits like rum and whiskey, how much of the process goes on before the product is barreled, and how much when it's on the oak?
Do you have a patent number so that I can look at it and get my geek on?

Our products (vodka, gin, bourbon, tequila, spiced rum, and blended whisky from Scotland) have now won 30 medals in 5 international blind taste competitions.  The Moore School of Business of the Univ of SC recently conducted a consumer blind taste panel with almost 100 participants.  Our vodka outscored Belvedere and Grey Goose.  Our bourbon outscored Knob Creek and Woodford Reserve.  Our Tequila outscored Cabo Wabo and tied Padron.  Our Spiced Rum out scored Sailor Jerry and was second to Captain Morgan, primarily because they outscored us on aroma.

We have data comparing the phenolics gallic acid, vanillic acid and vanillin of a leading 12 year old single malt Scotch with those of a 3 year old Scotch subjected to our process for a few days and they are almost identical -- on paper and in taste.

n the case of rum,the process is used instead of barreling.  In the case of bourbon, because of TTB standards of identity, the process is used after barreling.  But imagine how many oak trees could be saved if the regs permitted oak chips instead of requiring new oak barrels!

U.S. Patent No. 7,063,867 issued 2006.  Canada issued a patent for the process AND the product in 2010.  Pending in EU and other countries.

[Panama Jack]

Hewlette, on 04 February 2011 - 04:01 AM, said:

Our products (vodka, gin, bourbon, tequila, spiced rum, and blended whisky from Scotland) have now won 30 medals in 5 international blind taste competitions.  The Moore School of Business of the Univ of SC recently conducted a consumer blind taste panel with almost 100 participants.  Our vodka outscored Belvedere and Grey Goose.  Our bourbon outscored Knob Creek and Woodford Reserve.  Our Tequila outscored Cabo Wabo and tied Padron.  Our Spiced Rum out scored Sailor Jerry and was second to Captain Morgan, primarily because they outscored us on aroma.

We have data comparing the phenolics gallic acid, vanillic acid and vanillin of a leading 12 year old single malt Scotch with those of a 3 year old Scotch subjected to our process for a few days and they are almost identical -- on paper and in taste.

n the case of rum,the process is used instead of barreling.  In the case of bourbon, because of TTB standards of identity, the process is used after barreling.  But imagine how many oak trees could be saved if the regs permitted oak chips instead of requiring new oak barrels!

U.S. Patent No. 7,063,867 issued 2006.  Canada issued a patent for the process AND the product in 2010.  Pending in EU and other countries.

Congrats, but I do not think most distillers are very impressed with Belvedere or Grey Goose, two products that are more the result of marketing then quality. It would be interesting to know the tasters for the Bourbon competition, many people would not like the strong character of those brand names. Do you have a tasting room on site?

[cowdery]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana

And after you buy my new accelerated aging system, I have a bridge I want to talk to you about.

Here comes another one just like the other one. I could go on.

You can dress this stuff up with all the science mumbo-jumbo you want, but we've seen and heard this all before and nothing ever comes of it. Look into it if you want, get all worked up about it if you want, I've got better things to do with my time.

These schemes always seem to find an audience, much like the latest "get rich quick" or "lose weight fast" products. I wrote here about why they are so seductive.