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  1. 3 points
    the midwest. if you're from New York, it starts just West of Philly until you get to Nevada. If you're from Texas, it ain't anywhere near Texas. Texas is Texas. If you're from California.. hey, man, like, whaat? If you're from Chicago, that's the midwest, but they aren't happy about who's in the rest of the midwest. If you're from the South and don't say "y'all" then that's not the South, it's the midwest.
  2. 1 point
    Certificates of Label Exemptions only available for spirits sold exclusively in the sate they are produced? https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/13.11 Certificate of exemption from label approval. A certificate issued on Form 5100.31 which authorizes the bottling of wine or distilled spirits, under the condition that the product will under no circumstances be sold, offered for sale, shipped, delivered for shipment, or otherwise introduced by the applicant, directly or indirectly, into interstate or foreign commerce.
  3. 1 point
    It is taking forever to work through the process with Fed-Ex to get approved to ship alcohol. It now goes through Fed-Ex legal department. It has been over eight weeks since I started calling. Signed all the agreements two weeks ago, and keep getting told by the rep I was lucky enough to get an email address for that legal is still working on it and there is nothing she can do. UPS would never return my calls. I have a shipper for my in-state business-to-business transactions (through www.libdib.com... and also for the in-store purchases that I am allowed to ship on their behalf to their residence), but for the out of state shipping where I can direct ship to consumers, or otherwise work with a licensed retailer where we do the shipping for them, I needed a national common carrier. Just letting everyone know to expect the common carrier approval to take several weeks and don't be surprised if you cannot get it done depending on the carrier.
  4. 1 point
    Actually, the biggest outcome of this case potentially from follow on cases, beyond expanding Granholm clearly to spirits, will be preventing states from giving privileges to in-state distilleries without also making the same privileges available to comparable out-of-state distilleries. For example, if you create a license that allows a distillery producing from a farm in your state to self-distribute, but don't allow a farm distillery from out-of-state to obtain an equivalent license, that might be found unconstitutional if challenged as an extension of the reasoning of this decision.
  5. 1 point
    There is a protein in rye that creates the foam and stops transfer of heat. Sebpro pl will solve these problems for you. Also try viscoferm for viscosity. Haven’t had a foamy rye fermentation in years.
  6. 1 point
    For TN: of course you'd have to go through local zoning and get your property first. But once you get your federal permit, then you apply to the state with owner info (similar to TTB OOI), pay distillers license fee, any local license (privilege fees) then sign up with a distributor and register your brands with state (more fees). You'll be inspected by TN ABC and TN Dept of Agriculture. Both are typically very fair to deal with. I have yet to see the TN ABC deny someone a distillery license. TN is a three tier system and your TN distributor "owns" you in that region they operate. They can dump you if they don't want your product, but you have to go in front of a state judge to get out of contract with them if they won't want you to leave. And then you still may not be able to leave.
  7. 1 point
    Filters are filters. Not sure why there is any question about which one will work for the Enolmaster, but maybe there's something I'm missing. It's been many years since we stopped selling Tenco fillers so I don't recall completely, but I've been looking at pictures of the unit online and it's just a standalone filter housing with a hose barb inlet and outlet. The only odd thing about their unit is that it uses vacuum to pull through the filter, which means you'll get less life out of filters than you would if you were pushing through them with a positive displacement pump, which is the way we set up Mori Fillers with inline filter. Any filter housing should technically work. It's just a question of plumbing it inline with your Tenco filler: Polypropylene filter housing Stainless steel housing Professional-grade housing It looks like all you would need to do is get either a hose barb x thread or hose barb x tri clamp fitting to make one of those work just like the Tenco version.
  8. 1 point
    Someone could probably make good money selling pyrex replacements for the Enolmatic plastic filter housings. Why Tenco stopped producing them I will never understand. I suspect they did so before the explosion small craft distillers, not realizing the market was there, and knowing they were unnecessary for lower alcohol products like wine.
  9. 1 point
  10. 1 point
    We had that same enolmaster system and we didn't use the pyrex filter housing. Never ever had a problem in 3 years. Washed it thoroughly, handled gently, didn't overtighten the lid.
  11. 1 point
    I've had an Enolmaster for over 2 years. Probably use it on average once every two weeks. Never had a problem with it that wasn't easy to fix. Is it breaking when you are screwing the top lid on it with the four screw handles? From what I've seen the Enolmatic can be used for spirits and the housing is plastic.
  12. 1 point
    Any pics of the area? I was thinking of getting one, would like an idea of the issues I may have to deal with. Thanks.
  13. 1 point
    For just the mash cooling, near a 500 Gal. You should be near 65-70 tank temperature when done, so then let the chiller to continue running until the tank is around 55F, and then you're ready for still action! If you're cooling fermenters too, you want to upsize the reservoir so it finishes up a little cooler since you want decent temperature going to the fermenter jackets. I would tap off the return line back to the tank from the chiller so you have coldest water going to the fermenters and then return that back to the tank. I tend to use a hybrid cooler now (not a dry cooler, but similar) that gives you 85F glycol in summer and colder all other seasons. I use a chiller for the still and fermenters when I need to- this is my current high efficiency design. This design also allows smaller reservoir tanks and much less KW used for cooling during off season. I have a 40 ton hybrid cooler and 60 ton chiller used for a quick mash cool in a large distillery where they are mashing every day. They would have had to use 100 ton chiller if they did this with a large reservoir. I am saving 20 HP for the cooling in the summer and probably more like 40 HP in the winter season. Cost savings is immediate as well.
  14. 1 point
    I believe this must be located somewhere either in Vanuatu or Indonesia. you far easterners confuse me.
  15. 1 point
    Do you filter? I filter around 85 proof so it sits almost at bottle proof for at least a day or two at pretty close final proof anyways. I feel a bit of aging in an atmosphere with some oxygen available is good for any high alcohol liquids. Obviously whiskey in a barrel does. Even strong beers and wines can benefit from being cellered for a while. Also alcodense is a great tool. I use it every day many times.
  16. 1 point
    We use pneumatic mixers and have never had an issue. You can find comparable mixers on eBay at a fraction of the price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/50Gallon-Pneumatic-Bracket-Mixer-Tank-Barrel-Air-Mix-Stainless-Steel-Clip-Paint/173855013130?epid=2256269422&hash=item287a90f90a:g:8fMAAOSwptZcPWdq Use some combination of the follow words on eBay and you should find lots of options that will be better than a hand drill/driver: pneumatic, stainless, sanitary, air, mixer, agitator, drum, barrel, etc.
  17. 1 point
    Vapor vs. Boiler Infusion Slowly on the mend, Graffy. One moment I feel good, an hour later it's of to bed again. It seems pneumonia takes a bit longer to recover fully from. But enough about that. Onwards with gin! Vapor vs. boiler infusion, where the first stands for a distillation cycle with the herbs and berries in the vapor path, and where "boiler infusion" stands for a situation where the herbs and berries are put in the diluted GNS that's about to be distilled. I feel the discussion of vapor vs. boiler infused gin follows quite naturally on the thinking about louched vs. non-louched gins. Vapor infusion has seen a steep rise in attention over boiler infusion, over the last years. Mainly, in my opinion, there are two reasons for that. First, vapor infusion is a great way to create a gin without the "issues" associated with louching. Vapor infused gins don't louch, where boiler infused gins do. So if you feel louching is bad (please see the post above), vapor infusion can help you out. The second thing that happened is that Bombay Saphire Gin became a huge hit. And it acclaimed its success to its great taste and its great taste to its vapor infused distilling method. "Delicate" is a word often used to describe vapor infused gins. To burst that second bubble first: Bombay Saphire does not taste great. Yes, it does, when compared to traditional English gins like Beefeaters and Gordons, but in a direct comparison with most Craft Distilled Gins, it does not stand a chance. I know, because we use Bombay (and Hendricks and Tanqueray) in blind tastings when helping our customers developing great tasting gins. Even people that come in and say: "Bombay (or Hendricks or Tanqueray) is my prefered gin!" will never go back to it, once they have done a side-by-side comparison with Craft Distilled Gins. Vapor infusion does not create gins that louche. The reason is that vapors are much, much "thinner" than liquids. Around 1200 limes. One liter of (say) 30% diluted GNS in the boiler will boil-of as 1200 liters of gases. Gas to herbs contact therefore creates much less taste (tasty oils) transfer than liquid to herbs contact. Less oils over means that vapor infusion produces non-louching gins. It also explains why vapor infusion makes a lighter gin. Not by definition more delicate, but, yes, by definition lighter. So, its not like one method is better than the other, that really depends on your goal. Do you want a ligher gin? Use vapor infusion or use boiler infusion and then dilute with GNS. Do you want a bolder, heavier style? Go the route of boiler infused gin. "But how about peels? Peels need to be vapor infused, right? They turn rancid otherwise!" Yes and no. It's not the peels of lemons and limes, tangerines and oranges that turns rancid. It's the inside white, the pith, that does. Both in vapor and in boiler infused approaches. It's just that in vapor infusion less taste, so also less of the potentially rancid tastes, come over. In other words: if you make sure the peel you use has zero to none inside white ... you can put them where ever you like. It is my profound experience (and nowadays the experience of many, many distilleries that have sought our help in product development) that the statement that peels need vapor infusion is a myth. Does this mean vapor management is a myth? That it serves no goal? No. As before: it is a choice you have. An extra tool you can apply. But it is not The Tool That Solves Everything. In fact, if you understand that louching is actually a good thing, and if you work with well cleaned peels in your gin recipe, you'll probably find boiler infusion to be easier and more economical to work with, since it allows you to make both lighter and heavier styles, while using less total herbs to get you there. There is one thing, though, that vapor infusion is king at. And that's if you have flowers in your gin recipe. Most flowers benefit from an oils extraction method that combines both higher ABV's (higher alcohol percentages) and lower temperatures. That's exactly where vapor infusion excels. Gases have undergone one distillation and are by definition stronger in alcohol percentage than the boiler content they boil-of from. And gases have a lower temperature than the temperature of the liquids in the boiler. If you have flowers in your gin recipe, vapor infusion is a great tool. And that's all that's to it. It's not like vapor infusion or boiler infusion are better. Due to the different chemical / scientific situations they offer, both methods provide tools you can use to your benefit. To what goal? To make even better gin. It's not vapor vs. boiler infusion, its vapor AND boiler infusion. Next post? Let's dive into alcohol strength and the difference between a London Dry Style Gin and other gins. Regards, Odin.
  18. 1 point
    To Louch or not to Louch, that's the question! Thanks tbagnulo! Onwards with louched gins! I visited a distillery once that had a wide array of products. Most of them bottled at 40%. Only their gin was bottled at higher strength. I asked the master distiller why? He said - and taking a look I could see it - that even at the higher ABV of 45%, his gin was on the verge of becoming cloudy (or "louchy" as the word seems to be). Would he go any lower in ABV, the gin would turn almost white. I asked him what he thought the solution was. He told me that he had talked to two gin experts. One advised him to cut his herbs bill in half. Use like only 50% of the total herbs bill he had used before. The second one told him to buy a chill filter and filter the haze out. The second solution I really don't like, because it takes away essential oils AKA taste. And anyone who tells you that chill filtering doesn't ... well, let them chill filter their whiskey for 10 times only to find out it starts to taste pretty much like a vodka! The first solution of using less herbs, isn't good either. It relies on the assumption that a louched gin is bad. I feel it isn't. A louched gin is a great indication you got over huge amounts of tasty oils. And that was the goal right? To create a big tasting gin. So how do we solve the louch? Easy, dilute some neutral / gns to the same percentage as the louched gin, and add a portion. There will be a moment (75:25, 66:34, 50:50, etc.) when all of a sudden the louch lifts. In a second, maybe two. You now have the gin with the most taste possible. And if you think it is too big in taste? Dilute it. Bottom line? A louched gin gives you a balpark. A starting point that makes it easy to create great tasting gin with the same flavor profile over and over again. And you can always dilute a big taste gin to a lighter one, but not the other way around. Next post: on boiler vs. vapor infused gins. Regards, Odin. PS: Here's a movie on me making gin. With lots of info on how to do it! Here it is:
  19. 0 points
    Yes, they must have all required federal and state licenses and permits for me to sell them industrial alcohol. I have all required licenses and permits to sell to my customers. I hold 5 different alcohol permits just from the feds. I basically do everything just like the other bulk alcohol sellers. 2 of my fed permits have to do with using and selling denatured ethanol, which of course does not have an excise tax. Hemp processors are a huge market for bulk ethanol and they pay well. Many just buy 5 gallon containers shipped by fed ex. You must ship in the proper containers that have the correct labels when shipping industrial use ethanol via fed ex. UPS will not ship it. We also sell by the 55 gallon HDPE barrel, 270 gallon tote and by the tanker truck load. Also there are alcohol sales permits for alcohol used in food processing, which after some thought is what I think you need for your potential customer. I don't remember having any problems finding the correct permit applications when I looked for them on line. If you need some help locating the correct permit applications, for you and your potential customer, just let me know and I will look them up and post some links for you.
  20. 0 points
    If you are looking at doing bulk (greater than 1 gallon) it is doable, although I haven't done it. You would be looking at selling tax paid alcohol and then they would register with the TTB as a "Drawback claimant" and file for a drawback to get partial tax credit since it is used for non-beverage manufacturing. See Title 27, Chapter 1, Part 17 -> https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=e26cfad7243d0f86927a2a105cb0143f&mc=true&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title27/27cfr17_main_02.tpl I imagine you could bottle 190 and sell over the retail counter, but I doubt it qualifies for drawback claims.
  21. 0 points
    Having researched for nearly four months and reviewed a dozen quotes, I would like to recommend Automatic Farm Systems ( www.afsproducts.com ) to anyone looking for a hammer mill. Reasonable price and exceptional service. We picked up a 20 HP mill, control panel, hopper and auger for under $6K. Thanks @Huffy2k for the recommendation. Hammer_Mill.pdf
  22. 0 points
    Whether you macerate, use a gin basket, or vapor expose, does not determine if you are distilled or redistilled. For sure, with any of these methods, if you are distilling directly from ferment, you are a "distilled gin" and do not need a formula. Moreover, if you distill from any spirit previously classified as ANY specific spirit other than gin (purchased, stored, transferred, etc.), you made a "redistilled gin" and require a formula. Okay, here is where it gets tricky, and where I have obtained conflicting guidance from different people at the TTB. If you are distilling a product in production, and it stays in production for additional distillation (never moved to the storage or processing account), with the final distillation producing the finished gin, and maintain in the intermediate gauging and records that the product is gin "in production", then it could be considered "distilled gin" and not require a formula. Just like if you distill something 5 times to make vodka with only the last distillation being over 190 proof, or 3 times to make whiskey. In this interpretation, it is the change of classification of the spirit from a non-gin class to gin that makes the formula a requirement, as it would if I had product that was classified as whiskey, then redistilled to make vodka, and thus would normally require a formula. However, two countervailing points: 1) we have submitted formulas for vodka where we redistill essentially unaged whiskey or feints, prior to its finish, and have been told that a formula is not needed (or submitted formula was not approved with the comment that it was not needed); and 2) we have had one TTB officer in Formulation tell us a formula is required for gin as a "redistilled gin" so long as more than one distillation is performed. It would really help if the TTB would write a guidance note on this specific issue. It is all about how one defines "original distillation", since it does not call out "single distillation".
  23. 0 points
    From a formula perspective, the TTB categorizes three gin processes: distilled, redistilled, and compounded. The only one that doesn't require a formula would be distilled gin. You can look up formula requirements for all classes and types on this table: https://www.ttb.gov/images/industry_circulars/archives/2007/pre-cola_eval_spirits.pdf Whether your gin is classified as "distilled" or "redistilled", if you make multiple passes through your still, has been debated on the forums before. The definition below would indicate that if you perform the original distillation, regardless of how many passes through the still, you are producing a distilled gin and don't need a formula. Obviously, you'd still have to stick to the GRAS list. ATF PROC. 86-3 (doesn't look like it's been superseded) Distilled Gins Section 5.22(c), Class 3, defines "gin" as a product obtained by original and continuous distillation from mash, or by redistillation of distilled spirits, or by mixing neutral spirits, with or over juniper berries and other aromatics, or with or over extracts derived from infusions, percolations, or maceration of such materials, and includes mixtures of gin and neutral spirits. It shall derive its main characteristic flavor from juniper berries and be bottled at not less than 80 proof. Gin produced exclusively by the original distillation or by redistillation may be further designated as "distilled." If you think you meet that definition and are producing a distilled gin then you'd need to resubmit your label and list class/type as "distilled gin".
  24. 0 points
    Doing production planning for next year and I realize I have some additional capacity in my equipment that might be helping someone else fill barrels and bottles. If you are looking for some additional production capacity or are looking for someone to put some spirit in barrels for you while you are starting up reach out and let me know. Here is a breakdown of my major equipment so you can see if we would be a fit for your needs: 500gal steam injection mash tun with cooling coil 4 x 300gal stainless open top fermenters 250 gal Vendome hybrid still with 4 plate column, dephlegmator, and gin basket send a PM or email to mike@paintedstave.com
  25. 0 points
    It is not about the still. It is about the bonded premise, so storing whisky in barrel has the same issues as distilling, with regard to a residential property. That does not say it can't be approved, but they may want you to have some separation of the property with public (not private) access. For example, putting up a separation fence, possibly separating plots and ownership, and making sure there is a public road access to the location that is NOT on your residential property. And then you must make the property secure (think solidly built, with locks that meet TTB requirements), consider adding surveillance camera(s), and you will need local/state license for a bonded warehouse. Contact your regional TTB field rep for advice.
  26. 0 points
    I believe that if we order more than one, I can have them landed in NY for about 6k each.
  27. 0 points
    I think you might be misunderstanding something; malt whiskey in Scotland is (and has been for a couple hundred years) produced from a lautered wort. The grain whisky component of blended scotch is produced from an 'on-grain' mash which is distilled in a continuous column, but it's principally either wheat or corn with malted barley in a small proportion to provide enzymes. There are a couple of distilleries doing something aberrant to that like Loch Lomond, but I don't believe distilling malt whisky 'on-grain' has ever been remotely common in the commercial scotch whisky industry. If you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it, as I'm proof reading someone's manuscript on Scotch whisky right now
  28. 0 points
    Having used an Enolmatic for years, and as you can see here, the filters are standard sizes, so you can find replacements at a low cost. We added a 10 inch pre filter with a Nalgene or polypropylene body (very common and very cheap filters) as a pre-filter to our line (10 um) and then used 1 um in the filter canister.
  29. 0 points
    From a previous post I made. This link does a pretty good job of explaining the codes that affect distilleries. http://ferar.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/pub_Distiller_Winter2018.pdf
  30. 0 points
    Read http://www.klausbruckner.com/blog/distillery-storage-dilemmas/
  31. 0 points
    There are plenty of other plant based sources of long-chain fatty acids and waxes that are fairly similar, depending on what your target is. Depending on what you want to target, it's fairly easy to find a plant-based match. You can even engineer a specific profile using GRAS ingredients. For example, if I want to target C12-C16, I might use a refined coconut oil (no, you don't get any coconut flavor or aroma in the distillate). If I want a high percentage of C16 - Rice Bran Oil. If I want to target C18 - Almond Oil. C16-C18 - Peanut Oil. If I want a higher percentage of waxes - Beeswax, or heck, just go with cane waxes as well. Folks who mash corn high in fatty acids see similar oil-slicks - corn oil high in C10 and C16. Probably more interesting are the long-chain wax esters, meaning you'd probably need two components to match. Like Peanut Oil and Beeswax. Which one of these makes the delicious rum oil? Which one of these tastes terrible?
  32. 0 points
    Are they sulfured? Sulfured wines are not suitable for distillation for most craft distilleries, without good means for desulfuring before distillation.
  33. 0 points
    This is correct, a homogenous mixture of water and ethanol will not separate or stratify. Realize that underlying this is constant Brownian motion in the tank, which means in order to stratify, it needs to overcome that. What you are likely seeing is the impact of small temperature differences at the top and bottom of the tank. Mixing ethanol and water generates heat, the tank will be warmer at the top, even after some time. If when gauging you only correct for one temperature, and assume the other liquid is the same, you’ll read slightly higher proof at the top. For unmixed, non-homogeneous mixtures: Very cold water and poor mixing might see warmer ethanol floating on top. Cold sugar syrup would see this amplified.
  34. 0 points
    Thank you. This. Very helpful. (Also, I award you +10 points for replying to the actual question)
  35. 0 points
    I'll second Sons of Vancouver. We've had quite a few customers go there for education and have nothing but good things to say!
  36. 0 points
    Collection of random thoughts... Note: My comments pertain to small a farm based distillery, not a mid - large urban enterprise. I love the farm distillery lifestyle. The commute to work in the morning is a 2 minute saunter past the chicken yard, coffee in hand. Very idyllic. But, it also cost me a million bucks. As a customer, when you arrive that's what you see. And, you immediately begin to imagine yourself in such a situation. That is what I'm selling - a fantasy of what could be... if only... So, as you contemplate the idea of building your own distillery, the first question you need to ask yourself, are you up for building, presenting and sustaining that or a similar/unique image/idea? For many years? Next. As a farm operation, traffic is going to be a problem one way or another. Not enough or too much, either way, issues will abound - but the sad fact is - no matter what your business plan says, you will never sell enough bottles through your tasting room to sustain an operation. Therefore, you need to be very clear about how you are going to move your product. Next. Even if you have a great product - your clients will always opt for the liquor store 90% of the time for the cheap stuff. So, you are catering to a very small market and you have to know how to nurture it carefully. To that end, there is an old adage in this business - "Win Your Backyard." This is incredibly important advice and the distilleries that fail to heed it are often very sorry, when upstarts like us start biting their ankles. This is an extremely competitive business. Sure people are the best of buds, but they will soon sour on you when you knock them off the local store/restaurant shelf. The other key point you need to consider is - Do you understand what an alcohol company is? Trick question. Answer: Its a marketing company that sells alcohol. If you don't understand marketing inside out and back to front, you are at a disadvantage. And finally, how are your taste buds? If you are not producing quality over quantity in a farmgate environment you won't attract the loyalty you'll need in the dark winter months. And finally, my consultant was quite surprised when I mentioned my impending long weekend bottle sales - (in the many hundreds) - he pointed out that a lot of distilleries although surviving, are not thriving like we are. This is a tough, expensive business - so make sure you are well armed before going into battle.
  37. 0 points
    Not the best shot, but you get a good idea.
  38. 0 points
    We use blue label and print on foil stock for metallics. We don’t emboss yet, but will. We do matte and semi-gloss golds.
  39. 0 points
    Blue Label Digital Printing
  40. 0 points
    You don't even need a formula for a gin distilled from a mash (think jenever-style). I had to fight like hell to make that case to the TTB officer that reviewed our COLA, but it's right there in the regs. Now, don't get me started on how they're dealing with COLAs for aged gins.
  41. 0 points
    Column C is for imports, so unless you are importing spirits it will be blank. Column D is "Wine Gallons" packaged, which is different than 'Proof Gallons". "Wine gallons" will be the total amount of product packaged, stated in gallons, regardless of proof.
  42. 0 points
    hoochware has limitations and odd quirks. Why require and use volume measurements when everything is done by weight? Can't handle sugar additions for liqueurs and similar. X5 costs a little more, but does what hoochware could not. The difference I think is hoochware was built by a programmer, but X5 was built by a distiller. It shows in the details.
  43. 0 points
    +1 on X5. Hoochware did not work for me.
  44. 0 points
    Distillery inventory, process, reporting management the hard way pen, paper spreadsheets. Pros, the only cost is your time and you gain an intimate knowledge of every last nuance of your business.. Cons, How much time do you have to spare? We currently use X5 and love it. Pros: cloud based data is always at your fingertips with complete information at a touch plus the ability to mine data easily. Easy monthly and quarterly reporting. HUGE time saver. Cons: It costs money. (although it is well spent in my opinion ) The question you have to ask is how much is your time worth to you?
  45. 0 points
    I get asked this a lot and I thought this to be a good start, or at least I wish I had this direction when I was starting in brandy production. https://blog.dropbit.io/2018/11/06/the-7-secrets-to-producing-quality-brandy/
  46. 0 points
    Alcohol Strength A little more on alcohol strength. While distilling and while bottling. Let's start with the ABV of you vodka/neutral/GNS in the boiler ... The first question, related to alcohol strength is of course: how does it influence taste? Luckily, the answer is pretty straight forward: if you distill your gin at a higher proof, it will get dryer in taste. That's why London Dry Gin is called "Dry". It is distilled at no less than 70% / 140 proof, that's a quite high percentage ... so "High" equals "Dry". And if you want to get an understanding at what "Dry" means in a gin ... maybe buy a bottle of Gordon's or Beefeater's. If "High" is "Dry", what happens if we distill with lower proof in the boiler, in order to get the distilate to come over below 70%? Well, in that case the gin becomes less dry and more mellow in style. All right. Now, for example's sake, let's assume you want to make a more mellow gin. How to achieve it? By putting a less strong GNS in your boiler. But here comes the interesting challenge: below 30% not all herbs give up their taste oils. Now, if you choose to vapor infuse that's not a problem. The rising gases are stronger than 30%. Even on a 20% boiler charge. But vapor infusion brings over less taste. So how do we deal with boiler infused gin? Bigger taste, but since the boiler charge needs to be 30% for oils extraction ... does this mean we cannot make anything else - when boiler infusing - than a dry style gin? No, it doesn't. And here's the solution I like to work with. What I do, when I make a gin (and I am more of a big taste - so boiler infused - and mellow - so below 70% kinda guy), is this: I prepare my gin run the night before. I fill (example) a 500 liter boiler with 200 liters of 60%. I put the berries in and I put the herbs in. I let them steep over night. Next morning I top of with warm water to bring the ABV down and to preheat the boiler contents (to get to the production phase sooner). Best of both worlds. Works like a charm. Please see the video posted above for more explanation. Now, onwards to bottling strength. Many commercial gins are bottled at 40%. You'd need a very forward cut or light and floral gin to be able to dilute it to 40% without louching. Or you need to chill filter, of which I am not a fan, because it takes away taste. I personally feel 43 to 45% is great. Sometimes 47% is wonderful. My advice: play with ABV. I have helped develop a beautiful gin for customers from Ireland, where we wanted a neat sipper and a gin for in the gin tonic. We used the same herbs bill, the same distilling procedure, and the same cut points. The only thing we changed is how far we diluted down. The neat sipper stayed at 47%, the gin for gin tonic went down to 43%. Amazing taste differences are to be found, just playing with your bottling strength. So what's next? I could talk a bit more on gin aging. Some misconceptions there we can dive into. And/or you tell me what you want me to cover in the next post and I'll try to dive into your questions. Just let me know. Regards, Odin.
  47. 0 points
    Taste Development during the Run So, let's follow up on the first post. Taste, in a gin, pretty much follows in the footsteps of making brandy, whiskey or rum. Fruity notes at the beginning, body in the middle, root-like, nutty tastes at the end of the run. Weird, because we normally work with GNS, when making gin, so there shouldn't be "real" heads and tails, right? Right, but the molecules, associated with certain tastes, still follow the same rules. Fruity at the beginning, root-like at the end. Lime, lemon, orange peel come over early. Rooty and nutty herbs come over near the end. And if you want multi-dimensionality, a complex gin, you need both. It even gets more funny. Or interesting. Not only does the gin develop in taste as a whiskey or rum or brandy would ... even though you may use GNS to make your gin, you still need cuts. Cuts on a gin? Yes! A sorta Fores/Heads cut and a sorta Tails cut. Tails cut is easy. It is when you stop the run, because the later parts of the run just bring too much root-like tastes over (and they easily overpower the fruitiness of the beginning of the run). But a "Fores/Heads cut"? Yes, you need it. A small one. Only like 0.5 liters on a 250 liter charge. Maybe a liter in a 500 liter boiler charge of gin. The first (half a) liter. Why? This contains the very oily, excessive and harsh first juniper oils. You want to cut them out. I'll try to find a picture and add it to this thread. So you can see how these first juniper oils, that you want to cut out, look like. Really remarkable. A bubble of haze in a pint of alcohol. Not nice. Toss it. I can't find pics right now, but I'll dive in later. Important that you see it, so you can recognize it. All right, so how can we use cuts to perfect our gin? Well, if you are not satisfied with the amount of back of throat taste / root-like tastes ... you could cut a bit later, allowing for more nutty flavors to come over. Or if you feel you need a little less fruity notes ... well, you can dial the amount of fruit peel back ... or you can take a slightly larger "Fores/Heads cut". I am not saying one solution is better than the other, I am just informing you that by "gin cutting" you have an additional tool to perfect your gin runs. Something else you can use. If you make rum or brandy or whiskey, you can do a swift stripping run. Fast, low alcohol purity, lots of tastes blending in all over the place. Just so you get the picture: faster strips make for dirtier smearing of heads and tails into hearts. Same technique you can use with gin making. You don't strip, but you can vary power inputs on your distilling machine. If you go for higher energy inputs and higher output figures per liter, you will increase vapor speeds inside your column. High vapor speeds translate to more of the Tails oriented tastes to come over earlier. And they may be overpowering. The solution? Just throttle down and you will find the outcome less root-like, less nutty oriented. More florals coming over. Play with it: power settings. If you go too fast, taste becomes flat, one dimensional. Tune it down (by power management) and within just a few seconds, you may find the taste appealing again. Multi-faceted, interesting, complex. Playing with energy input, speed of run, and vapor speeds does not only allow you to make better tasting gin (lower speeds for better gin), it also allows you to go deeper into the Tails oriented department without the associated tastes becoming too overpowering. In other words: you can use more of the GNS to actually make more great tasting gin. End temperature based on gas temperature entering the column? Between 94.5 and 96 degrees C. The slower you go, on the last part of the run, the deeper you can go, without compromising on overal taste. Next? Lets dive into louched gins in the next post. Are they a failure ... or maybe a sign of actual distilling success? I'll try to find some time and dive in tomorrow or the day after. For after the weekend? A take on boiler vs. vapor infused gins! I know there's lots of opinions. I won't try to take sides, I will try to explain the pro's and con's. Regards, Odin
  48. 0 points
    I have not personally sourced from any of these suppliers, but a quick google search reveals a lot of information out there. Start calling and price checking on bulk NGS. Depending on your needed volume and desired final product, there may be a lot of variability. Cheers! MGP (Achison, KS): http://www.mgpingredients.com/product-list/Grain-Neutral-Spirits.html GPC (Muscatine, IA / Washington, IN): http://www.grainprocessing.com/corporate-info/facilities-services.html Alchemical (Ashland, OR: http://organicalcohol.com/store/index.php/products/ Archer Daniels Midland (ADM - Peoria, IL): http://www.adm.com/en-US/products/food/alcohol/Pages/default.aspx CVEC (Benson, MN): http://www.cvec.com/190-proof
  49. 0 points
    2lb/gal is more typical in my experience, so 56lbs x 39 points/lb / 28 gal = 1.078 OG Assuming it ferments out to 1.000 you've got 28 gal @ 10.25% ABV, or 2.87 wine gallons.
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