Dmonahan

We were getting the "dust" leftover from a local large brewery's milling operation and tried several different malts depending on what beer they were making. The chocolate/darker roasted malt flavors came through quite intensely. We didn't see much difference between the other malts and the resulting whiskey.

Only want to be treated fairly. But thanks for thinking of us. I'm not sure if this is in response to their earlier proposed reg changes. Chris told me in December that another barrel specific proposal was in the works at the time they released the present proposal.

Thanks for adding that @dhdunbar the TTB position is definitely creating issues for small distillers. The deadline for comments has now been extended to the end of June.

Yes I know of many that don't quite follow the rules as they should with regards to whiskeys. My friends at 300 Days of Shine do a nice job with moonshine with some barrel finishing for some of their shine. They get some great barrel flavors without needing age statements. Check out their label pic

If you want a way to not need an age statement. Make use of this rule: TTB has also had a number of requests from industry members for guidance on labeling products that are stored in two different types of barrels. For example, whisky must be stored in oak containers, in accordance with the standard of identity. When a producer stores the whisky in oak containers and then stores it in a different type of container, such as a maple barrel, the spirit becomes a distilled spirits specialty product and must be labeled with a statement of composition, such as “Bourbon Whisky finished in maple barrels.” TTB proposes, in § 5.155(c), to add this requirement to the regulations. So put you white whiskey in a barrel for 1 minute, so you can call it a whiskey. Then introduce a secondary treatment, such as above so that it becomes a distilled specialty spirit. As such your label can read "Whiskey" in large letters with smaller finished with XXX. As a distilled specialty spirit, no age statement is required.

That's definitely protein. I've distilled many beers, but never used anti-foam and never had significant precipitate. The system "pukes" at first- foam fills everything and you get beer in the foreshots but never had any problems with clogging. We would just save all early distillate/puke and redistill it.

I think this is new and not really a desirable change. My feeling is age is an indication to the consumer of time spent on wood, so the customer has a general expectation for the product. I do understand that the maturation process is different when moving the spirit to a new barrel, as opposed to a continuous barrel aging in a single barrel. But with age statements there are so many variables affecting the maturation process, I'm not sure its fair or appropriate to single this one out. What if you're in the second barrel for twice as long as the first, or if the first one was used and second one new (for a generic whiskey)? If I set up a solera system, I don't think its fair to only count the time spent in the first barrel as the total age of the spirit and doesn't provide the customer with useful information as to the nature of the product. For me this change just introduces more questions than simply making age a statement of time the spirit is stored in oak. If you look at the FAQ below, it seems previously the time spent on oak was the determination of age: From their FAQ https://www.ttb.gov/spirits/faq.shtml What is the "age" of a whisky?The TTB regulations at 27 CFR 5.11 define the term "age" to mean the period during which, after distillation and before bottling, distilled spirits have been stored in oak containers. For bourbon whisky, rye whisky, wheat whisky, malt whisky, or rye malt whisky, and for straight whisky other than straight corn whisky, the "age" is the period during which the whisky has been stored in charred new oak containers.

i have used various sized fustis with good luck. Also 55 gal barrels from Bubba's. I can check with a friend who uses poly tanks to store her ethanol to see where she got hers.

Brian, Thank you for making the community aware of this. It has a potentially devastating impact on small distilleries who can't afford to wait for the long aging cycle or to lay down so much whiskey at once. To me, the intent of a barrel is to provide an environment for wood extraction, allowing for micro-oxygenation and concentration through angel's share. To legislate a barrel size and shape with the intent of maintaining some flavor profile or historical precedent really makes no sense to me as there are so many variables affecting flavor profiles and historical precedence would mean we would all have to use equipment like the most basic of pot stills, wooden fermentation tanks, etc. There are so many possibilities in creatively using barrels of various sizes and shapes, it defies logic to limit the distiller's options in an increasingly crowded market with ever demanding customers for that novel product.

We called our distilled beers " beer schnapps" because as previously stated calling it whiskey was not allowed, as the fermented product being distilled must consist of grains only. Flavoring must occur after the whiskey is distilled and barreled (it has to be a whiskey first before you can flavor it) to call it a flavored whiskey.

I always had this issue with rye, I could get other whiskeys to work with direct heated but never the rye. I did visit a distillery this past week, who claimed she was able to do this, very controlled fermentations and she cold crashes at the end and pulls out alot of solids. Personally I had to go with a jacketed still as I never had any luck

As a distiller who chose to become part of this business, I started with all the same issues expressed here. The statements about age of product, TTB regs etc. I totally understand. The reality for me was, and still is, I couldn't afford to age the product for the years that you will find make the significant difference in the chemistry. A 2 year old whiskey is little better than a whiskey aged for several months in a small barrel when the whiskey is distilled properly for small barrel aging. For me, leaving it in the barrel long enough to call it a straight whiskey is more about semantics than any statement about quality as there are so many other dependencies driving that flavor. I have tasted some really bad young whiskeys (bringing to mind time spent in Home Depot) and some good young whiskeys. We are pursuing that same goal as many others of accelerated aging as I feel the industry needs that to be able to move forward, carrying costs are just too onerous for that multi-year process. TTB is a particular issue that we are working on. Yes the present interpretation is that a charred oak container is an oak barrel only, but Squarrel doesn't require a change in law, just a change in interpretation. As with anything to do with government there are multiple constituencies to satisfy, we see the product as providing an alternative that doesn't change the basics of the aging process, just gives you more control. It is different from putting wood in an open keg as the oxygen penetration through the wood is modeled to exactly match a barrel, unlike the keg example. So we will continue to work with TTB trying to meet their concerns with a barrel that for all intents and purposes acts like a traditional barrel. I do find the TTB folks open to discussion and looking for ways to help but they do have many considerations, like previous legal interpretations, that drive their actions. For now they have given us some leeway but, especially for bourbon, tradition holds much sway over the product's identification. The gasket material is EPDM certified to withstand ethanol for long periods of time and not breakdown or create off flavors. Reducing the amount of product exposed to liquid is always a design consideration, it just makes sense. Finding a way to seal wood to steel is a challenge that we always strive for, but the mechanics of getting two unlike materials to bond well is almost as difficult as getting craft distillers to agree on definition of craft. Decreasing cost is always a goal, as well as helping the industry move ahead in improving product quality and consistency. Our goal is to help our customers improve their product and their competitiveness, finding ways to better showcase your products and their uniqueness. In my humble opinion craft distilleries will find it challenging to compete head on with a scotch or traditional bourbon, so our intent is to give you more tools to create a product that best represents you. For all of us to succeed we each have to succeed. We can't continue to exist by providing you with a product that doesn't benefit you and provide you with an ROI that makes sense. I truly do appreciate the skepticism because that's what will help us improve our product to better meet your needs. And yes, I do think Ms Squarrel would be happy to entertain a focus group, not just to be in a room looking at the product, but actually trying it in the field for a period of time.