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Thatch last won the day on February 26

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About Thatch

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    Brunswick, Ohio
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    Golf, Sci Fi novels craft malt and craft spirits

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  1. Thanks to everyone who replied. Apparently Ohio is a bit unique. Dave Dunbar was kind enough to research the issue and this is his answer. General Accepted Accounting Principals (GAAP) does not dictate the rules for transactions. The state commercial code (UCC) does that. The transaction is the given; the accountant applies GAAP rules to the given transaction. There is no standard model for distribution systems. Some states are open states; some states are control states. There is no standard model for control state regulation. Not all states are three-tier states. Ohio is not a three-tier state for spirits. Here is what I find on the NABCA website, which usually does a good job of explaining the distribution systems (the bullet list is my creation. It forces me to read the elements): In 1983, Ohio completed a conversion from state-run warehouses and state-owned stock system to a bailment system. From 1991-1996, it converted all state stores to private businesses called Contract Liquor Agencies. In Fiscal Year 2013, JobsOhio Beverage System (JOBS) purchased from the state an exclusive franchise for the sale and distribution of spirituous liquor throughout Ohio. JOBS owns the spirituous liquor product (intoxicating liquor containing more than 21 percent ABV) in Ohio for retail and wholesale sales. The division [state] manages wholesale and retail operations for the sale of spirituous liquor in Ohio. The division selects and prices products, and JOBS supplies the product to Agencies for sale on consignment. Agencies are private businesses which own and operate retail outlets selling other goods and services to the public, such as beer, wine and low proof mixed beverages. I read this to say that under a franchise agreement with JOBS, JOBS has a monopoly on the sale and distribution of of spirits in Ohio. As the franchisor, the state selects which products JOBS distribute and sets the price. As described, JOBS functions as a distribution agent. The NABCA description says that JOBS owns the product that JOBS distributes it, but it also says that the product is in bailment, i.e., JOBS has a fiduciary responsibility for the product, but the supplier still owns it until JOBS sells it to private business which operate , under contract with the state, as retail liquor agencies. NABCA says that JOBS sells to the agencies on consignment. Bailment and consignment muddy waters. Who has title, etc., is going to be a matter of the commercial code, which doesn't like to concern itself with title, focusing instead on rights and obligations. I think that the accounting system should take the same approach. It appears that to accommodate tasting, etc, by distillers who are residents of the State of Ohio, and still comport with the terms of the JOBS franchise, the state wrote rules that allow the distillers to acquire product from JOBS for tasting. Under those rules, payment will become due as set forth in the rules. Since JOBS is the seller, under the franchise agreement, it must have a purchase agreement with the distiller for goods the distiller delivers to it.. Since JOBs is the seller under the franchise agreement, it must have a sales agreement with the distiller when it delivers the goods JOBS delivers to the distiller. The agreements set the terms of payment. Assuming you are using an accrual system, I think that the accounts receivable and payable entries to your financial accounts should be made at the time the agreement obligate the parties to pay. Since you appear to create two agreement, one to sell to JOBS and one to purchase from JOBS, the accounts receivable will reflect the sales to JOBS and the accounts payable will reflect the purchase from jobs.
  2. Thanks Dave, That's what my accountant thinks as well but until the State says they own it he is reluctant to post the transaction as a sale. The concept of the State buying the product and then selling it back to us for resale is foreign to accountants and he is trying to understand it completely. It seems that we have to record sales twice on each bottle, once to the State and then once to the consumer with profit being posted for each transaction. This is the part that seems to be unique to 3 tier.
  3. Thanks for the response. This is a 3 Tier question and whether or not they own the spirits when it moves to our tasting room. They pay us in advance and when we sell product they deduct payment from our account when we sell the product to a consumer who has visited us.
  4. We are in Ohio which is a 3 tier State. At this point we are only selling through our tasting room and in order to do so we must first sell the spirits to the State of Ohio and then to a consumer. We must take the spirits that we sell to the consumer from the stock provided by the State. The question is: When is it revenue, when you sell it to the state or when you ultimately sell it? If the state pays you 50% up front (just using 50% as an example), is that revenue since you haven’t really sold it yet, or is it some sort of deposit. Cheers!
  5. From a previous post I made. This link does a pretty good job of explaining the codes that affect distilleries. http://ferar.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/pub_Distiller_Winter2018.pdf
  6. The change that we had to make to our label was the term BOTTLED AT along with ALC/VOL. They basically give you a pass on the true proof and allow you to enter the proof prior to the infusion of the fruit. In our case we are bottling at 120 proof and then adding the fruit to the jar.
  7. Check out this thread, there are a lot of good ideas. http://adiforums.com/topic/10896-vapor-detection-alarm-exhaust-fan-control/
  8. Worked for me. Go to their FB page and click on photos
  9. I'm not generally impressed when I visit distilleries but low and behold what I found in Ohio farm country East of Cleveland. Although the inventor was not present, I believe these are back to back continuous column vacuum stills. Both seem to have infusion abilities. His nephew told me that the inventor built his first still at age 12. There are a couple of additional photos on their FB page. I have no additional information. https://www.facebook.com/SevenBrothersDistillingCo/
  10. @JNorris Thanks for the reply. We got our formula approved today but there are things that needs to be on the label that were not anticipated. Once that's approved I will add more so that the next person (notice my gender neutrality) going down this path will have a better road map. Read closely what @JNorris posted. There are many bad examples currently in use.
  11. We have developed a fruit infused whiskey. We are adding the fruit to a quart jar after distillation. Now that we have something that we would like to sell I have come up with a problem. Is it legal? I have search the forum for hours and found several posts that mention this technique but it is only a mention. When I search the BAM this does not seem to be allowed. Yet, I have seen similar products on the shelf in liquor stores with fruit sitting on the bottom of a quart jar. We will not be adding any sugar and we intend to use somewhere around 120 proof in the products. Any help or comments are greatly appreciated.
  12. @Southernhighlander I hope you don't disagree that the OP should check with his AHJ before developing a business plan around the fact that this will be okay.
  13. You site no regulations that you needed to comply with to make your local AHJ happy. Is the point that you are "just doing it" because you are in a rural area or is there part of the building code that we are not aware of that would allow such storage? Please share with us how you are making this happen.
  14. @dhdunbar is who you want to hear from. Hopefully he will respond. He is retired from ATF and began consulting for DSP's in 2012.
  15. Silk, any chance of a 15 second video
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