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Thatch

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Everything posted by Thatch

  1. MALT WHISKY³ Whisky produced at not exceeding 80% alcohol by volume (160 proof) from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent malted barley and stored at not more than 62.5% alcohol by volume (125 proof) in charred new oak containers
  2. Thatch

    Ventillation system

    This is likely what he will need to do to get a building and occupancy permit.
  3. It has to be low, keep in mind that ethanol vapor is heavier than air. The only way to detect that you have a problem is to get the sensor low but not so low that you'll drown it in a washdown.
  4. We have ours mounted on a pillar at eye level but the sensor is somewhere between 6 to 12 inches from the floor. We are within a few feet of our stills with the sensor.
  5. Stills built in the US are not likely to be ATEX compliant just as stills built in Europe are not likely to comply with US specifications. ATEX is a uniquely European Union directive for protection against explosive atmospheres. No. It’s not harmonized with NFPA combustible dust standards and not considered by OSHA an acceptable certification for electrical equipment used in hazardous locations.
  6. Thatch

    Ventillation system

    Silk's post is on the mark. You have asked several questions over the last couple of weeks that your architect should be on top of. I would recommend that you search on the term "code review" on this forum and read all the posts. This should be helpful to you and your architect is making sure you are aware of all code issues.
  7. You have to check with the manufacturer of the specific tubing. Generally the answer is yes, but there may be other tubings to consider that are better. The link below is put out by the US department of energy. https://www.bnl.gov/esh/shsd/PDF/Compressed_gas/Chem_Comp_Tubing_Material.pdf
  8. Yes, stainless, wooden barrels, tanks, poly totes, it all counts as long as the percentage is 16% or higher. The only thing that does not count is spirits in bottles not exceeding 1.3 gallons so long as those spirits do not exceed 100 proof. By the building code there is no "one or the other", the code is clear. What your AHJ allows you to do is what is unclear.
  9. Okay, than you should find a way to tell your AHJ very nicely that he might be incorrect. In your situation the 16% is the main point that you need to have him understand. Not being familiar with distilling he might think that your fermenters are full of high proof ethanol. Keep in mind that he is the boss. If he does not want to research this himself, you will likely need a written opinion for a consultant such as Scott Moore of Dalkita. You will likely have to pay for his written opinion. This is a link to the section of the Dalkita website that discusses MAQ. https://www.dalkita.com/maqs-maximum-allowable-quantities/
  10. I believe that your AHJ is incorrect. There is no MAQ if the ABV is less than 16%. You will be classified as H-3 is you exceed 120 gallon of Ethanol that is in excess of 16% ABV. What ABV are you achieving in your fermenters?
  11. Thatch

    Malt whisky ???

    Don't think so. That's what the folks at http://www.americansinglemaltwhiskey.org/ are trying to make happen.
  12. I'm guessing you meant geoff@focusfirstadvisors.com
  13. Sounds like the mailings I get from hearing aid companies. We're pretty sold on O-H-I-O as well and I'm always looking for a better way to skin the cat. So, I'll certainly listen to what you have to say. You might want to post your email address or if you want people to message you on the forum you might want to say so in your posting. Cheers
  14. If you will store more than 240 gallons, then the answer is yes, you must be H occupancy. There are ways to have up to 960 gallons in 4 separate control areas and still remain F-1 but that's another topic entirely. Talk to your architect about making the garage you mention comply with H-3, the code review I posted should be helpful to him.
  15. They don't unless the AHJ allows them to do so. This would violate building code. As you will read many times in this forum, it is up to the AHJ. In your case he is already talking about H-3. Even if he were to unknowingly allow you to violate the building code you might be in trouble when it comes to time to get insurance. Companies that insure distilleries know the building and fire code and may be more strict than the AHJ
  16. With no sprinklers you would be limited to 120 gallons in your DSP in excess of 16% ABV. The exception to this is you could have as much as you want in bottles less than 1.3 gallons so long as what is in the bottles does not exceed 100 proof. This would be for an F-1 occupancy. You could not be an H occupancy without sprinklers. c. The quantities of alcoholic beverages in retail and wholesale sales occupancies shall not be limited provided the liquids are packaged in individual containers not exceeding 1.3 gallons. In retail and wholesale sales occupancies, the quantities of medicines, foodstuffs or consumer products, and cosmetics containing not more than 50 percent by volume of water-miscible liquids with the remainder of the solutions not being flammable, shall not be limited, provided that such materials are packaged in individual containers not exceeding 1.3 gallons. This is a code review that I previously posted to go from F-1 to H-3 This is a code review for a classification change from F-1 to H-3. Although this references mostly Ohio Building Code the numbers should correspond directly to IBC and your local code. Preliminary Code Review to Convert Existing Malt House F-1/S-1 to H-3 Existing Building Use Group H-3 - Distillery and spirit storage Table 307.1(1) – Spirits at 50% alcohol or less is a 1C flammable liquid and requires an H-3 use group when the MAQ of 120 gal x 2 = 240 gal is in use or storage is exceeded. OBC 414 – Hazardous Materials 414.1.3 – Report required to be submitted to AHJ describing max quantities and types of hazardous materials to be in-use or stored 414.3 Ventilation – Mechanical ventilation required. 1 CFM/SF continuous in areas or spaces where flammable vapors may be emitted due to processing, use, handling or storage. Make up air likely required. 414.5.1 – Explosion control is not required per OBC Table 414.5.1 – 1C not listed. 414.5.2 – Standby power may be required for the continuous ventilation. This would be exempt if the 1C flammable liquid is stored in containers not exceeding 6.5 gal. IFC 2704.2.1 – Spill control needed if storage is in individual vessels of more than 55 gals. The barrels are smaller than 55 gal so no spill control needed. IFC 2704.2.2 – Secondary containment is not required. OBC – 415 Detailed requirements for H Groups 415.3 – Fire Alarm monitoring of sprinkler riser. Existing, complies. 415.4 – Automatic sprinkler. Design should be review for the change of use/occupancy. 415.5.1 – Emergency alarm. Local manual alarm outside of egress from a storage area is required. 415.6 – Greater than 25% of the perimeter wall is exterior wall, Complies. 415.6.1 – Group H minimum fire separation distance. OBC Table 602 – Exterior wall fire-resistance rating based on fire separation distance. 26’ separation distance to the east and west property lines requires a 1 HR exterior wall rating for an H use group. OBC CH 5 – Building area. Existing building area is 13,246SF is less than Table 506.2 14,000SF for a IIB, H-3. Complies without open perimeter or sprinkler area increases. OBC 706 – Fire walls. A 2 HR rated fire wall exists between the 5B (combustible) B-use office and the 2B (non-combustible) F-1/S-1 to separate building construction type. Table 706.4 requires a 3 HR rated fire wall for an H-3 use group.
  17. You might be able to be F-1. Does the property have sprinklers? How big will your still be? How many gallons of spirits do you intend to store? You will find reference to MAQ or maximum allowable quantity many places on this forum if you use those as search terms. Barrels do count toward your MAQ.
  18. You've misunderstood, you can remain F-1 by adding sprinklers and this will take you to 240 gallons. If you search on the term "MAQ" on this forum you will find significant discussion. H-3 will require much more in your build out but than you will have no MAQ.
  19. Yes, low wines in excess of 16% ABV are included in your MAQ. This is an excerpt from a Dalkita article that addresses this issue. Ethanol, over about 16% ABV is classified as a 1B or 1c Flammable liquid. On the MAQ chart, the amount in storage is 120 gallons, and in use (closed systems) is 120 gallons. You can not add storage and in use together. For instance, you could have 100 gallons in storage, and 20 gallons in use and you’d be at the max. Ultimately, if you exceed this volume of >16% ABV, then the room or building shall be classified as an H-3 (Hazardous) occupancy.
  20. If you search on the letters AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdication) on this forum you will find a significant amount of discussion on what they might want to talk about. The other guy that you would want in a second meeting if the planning commission and the building inspector give you positive vibes is the Fire Marshall.
  21. Back to the OP's post, spill control, drainage, and containment all refer to the International Fire Code where barrels are exempt. So, if you are storing in barrels, you should not be mandated to have any of the listed safeguards. But, as it has been said many times before, this is up to your AHJ. If he thinks you need them, you need them. With regards to your question on a list of site requirements, this code review document should be helpful, This is a code review for a classification change from F-1 to H-3. Although this references mostly Ohio Building Code the numbers should correspond directly to IBC and your local code. Preliminary Code Review to Convert Existing Malt House F-1/S-1 to H-3 Existing Building Use Group H-3 - Distillery and spirit storage Table 307.1(1) – Spirits at 50% alcohol or less is a 1C flammable liquid and requires an H-3 use group when the MAQ of 120 gal x 2 = 240 gal is in use or storage is exceeded. OBC 414 – Hazardous Materials 414.1.3 – Report required to be submitted to AHJ describing max quantities and types of hazardous materials to be in-use or stored 414.3 Ventilation – Mechanical ventilation required. 1 CFM/SF continuous in areas or spaces where flammable vapors may be emitted due to processing, use, handling or storage. Make up air likely required. 414.5.1 – Explosion control is not required per OBC Table 414.5.1 – 1C not listed. 414.5.2 – Standby power may be required for the continuous ventilation. This would be exempt if the 1C flammable liquid is stored in containers not exceeding 6.5 gal. IFC 2704.2.1 – Spill control needed if storage is in individual vessels of more than 55 gals. The barrels are smaller than 55 gal so no spill control needed. IFC 2704.2.2 – Secondary containment is not required. OBC – 415 Detailed requirements for H Groups 415.3 – Fire Alarm monitoring of sprinkler riser. Existing, complies. 415.4 – Automatic sprinkler. Design should be review for the change of use/occupancy. 415.5.1 – Emergency alarm. Local manual alarm outside of egress from a storage area is required. 415.6 – Greater than 25% of the perimeter wall is exterior wall, Complies. 415.6.1 – Group H minimum fire separation distance. OBC Table 602 – Exterior wall fire-resistance rating based on fire separation distance. 26’ separation distance to the east and west property lines requires a 1 HR exterior wall rating for an H use group. OBC CH 5 – Building area. Existing building area is 13,246SF is less than Table 506.2 14,000SF for a IIB, H-3. Complies without open perimeter or sprinkler area increases. OBC 706 – Fire walls. A 2 HR rated fire wall exists between the 5B (combustible) B-use office and the 2B (non-combustible) F-1/S-1 to separate building construction type. Table 706.4 requires a 3 HR rated fire wall for an H-3 use group.
  22. Agree, the code says: c. The quantities of alcoholic beverages in retail and wholesale sales occupancies shall not be limited provided the liquids are packaged in individual containers not exceeding 1.3 gallons. In retail and wholesale sales occupancies, the quantities of medicines, foodstuffs or consumer products, and cosmetics containing not more than 50 percent by volume of water-miscible liquids with the remainder of the solutions not being flammable, shall not be limited, provided that such materials are packaged in individual containers not exceeding 1.3 gallons.
  23. Respectfully disagree - Spirits in a barrel are included in the MAQ per zone. In other words, if you are F-1 the most you can have is 960 gallons MAXIMUM not in bottles. The 960 comes from 4 x 240 (4 control areas sprinkled - your distillery and 3 others). There may be no maximums in the fire code but there are in the building code. If you are H-3, there is no MAQ.
  24. The only one who can tell you what you need is the AHJ (authority having jurisdication) Once you present to the building inspector and/or fire inspector what you intend to do, they will tell you what you need to meet code. This is neither a TTB nor State requirement, this has to do with building codes and fire codes and the AHJ's interpretation.
  25. Thatch

    Malted corn

    We don't malt corn, only barley but Sugar Creek in Indiana malts corn. Christmas has come early today! Got 3 of the 4 different corn we will be malting this winter. Bloody butcher, Alan Bishop’s Amanda Palmer, and Oaxacan Green all grown by Robert McDonald! Just waiting on white corn now! First batch going in the steep tomorrow! #craftmalt #craftbeer #craftmalt #craftwhiskey #sugarcreeklimitedreleasemalts #maltedcorn #heirloomcorn @ Sugar Creek Malt Co.
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