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dgpoff

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Posts posted by dgpoff

  1. On 4/7/2017 at 3:52 PM, Cultus Bay Distillery said:

    We just introduced our "Irish" whisky, but of course we can't call it that. What we can say is that it's a triple-potstilled single malt whisky with a green label with shamrocks, named "Mulligan XXX". We're hoping people get the idea. Helping things out, a Irish waitress at one tasting we did sniffed it, and said, "Jameson". I'm happy with that.

     

    As far as the "known by customers" part, while the first batch was aging, we sold it white at 110 proof and called it "poitin", because it's identical in specifications to that tradition Irish folk spirit. Of course, almost no-one knew what the hell poitin was.

     

    Expect to receive a cease and desist by the Irish Whiskey Society. We did when we launched a brand of product (4 yrs ago) named after a farmer who happened to be Irish.We were asked to change name and remove any "shamrocks" under the threat of a lawsuit. Not saying we caved, but the letter and threat will come and you will have to legally answer. They are as protective as we are about our "Bourbon."

     

    DGP

  2. Our next door neighbors, No-Li Brewhouse (Spokane, WA) are selling 5 fermentation vessels. They have been employed as primary fermentation vessels (beer) for two years. Two will be available late-April, two more will be available mid-to late-summer. The last vessel will be available in the fall. We are replacing the vessels with cylindro-conical fermenters. They are asking $12,000 each.

    Features:

    • fabricated by Malrex (2009, UK, http://www.malrexfabrication.co.uk/)

    • 304 stainless steel

    • 1000 gallon total capacity

    • standpipe and drain ports and valves (2" TC)

    • atmospheric, closed-top with manway on top

    • insulated and jacketed – one rectangular glycol zone

    • CIP arm w/ 1.5” TC fitting and sprayball

    • 25 degree conical bottom (similar to dish bottom)

    • 9' 2” tall; 5' 9” wide

    • stainless outer shell

    • vacuum and pressure relief valve

    Will send pics.

    Please contact Damon Scott at damon.nolibrewhouse@gmail.com

  3. Don, I thought it was .15 ABV, or .3 proof. So you should be able to go to 79.7 proof without being out of compliance. Isn't that right?

    On one of our audits we were held to .15 proof. THE BAM reads .15% abv, but I think the explanation was that is .15ABv is the number and you have 40% abv stated, then you have a variance of 40 X.0015 or down to 39.94 proof or 79.88 proof. This is how our agent and the District guy applied the law. We all know this is how it works some times.

    BTW, I did get into a prolonged discussion about 3 years ago with the TTB all the way up to the top levels. The gauging manual says it is acceptable to use a thermometer accurate to .25 to 1.0 degrees and a hydrometer at .2 proof graduation. The use of a thermometer accurate to only 1.0 degrees will never allow you to be in compliance to .15 or .3 proof for that matter.

    DGP

  4. Along with John at SA, we have recently added a DMA 5000. Now that I am over the learning curve, it may just be the best $25K we have ever spent.

    We used certified/calibrated hydrometers to the highest accuracy available. Ditto with thermometers. Note that if you do this, just like any other instrument, they need to be re-calibrated/certified annually.

    Shooting at a .15 proof variance, and really only on the downside of the proof equation (below your stated bottle proof - above and you incur additional taxation, even at .01 proof over stated bottle proof) is extremely difficult to do with even the best analog instruments. And the TTB could care less what you are using, how you do it, etc.. If they send a sample out and you are out of compliance, you are written up and must go to great lengths to reestablish you ability to proof accurately. Fall below 79.85 proof on a bottle of 80 proof vodka in two successive compliance tests, and they will pull your cola. They are hardcore about this. They expect everyone to pull the variance line, regardless of method. And there is no sympathy for being a small guy who can't afford pricy instrumentation. Their answer to that is for you to farm out all proofing testing.

    Thus the statement that having and understanding the DMA 5000 makes me sleep way better at night. I now have certified, calibrated results, printed out, etc., without having to send samples to an outside lab and waiting for those results.

    DGP

  5. Since the US TTB definition is "Distilled to 190 proof or above", a mixture of anything with 190 NGS would then need to be redistilled to 190 proof again to meet the definition. Straight 190 NGS, even if it is diluted and run through a pot still does not have this requirement, as it has already met the definition.

    DGP

  6. Carl is an amazing company and family. Bear in mind I am nothing more than an owner, and receive no "consulting fees" as a result of my endorsement. And Carl stills have won plenty of national and international awards. We make a few cases each year, that we sell in a few states.

    Can't comment on the others. I don't own any of them, nor use them daily.

    Don

    Dry Fly

    Daily Distiller

  7. "Better" is such a subjective word. We like to use the word "different." Are our products "better" than any of the larger producers? I don't think so, and I'm not sure anyone is qualified to use that word anyway. I do know they are different. And I also know that our approach to almost every aspect of the process is "different." We rest well using that word.

    I think we all have to be really careful in the phrasing and such we use. Saying that 3 days aging in a 12 ounce barrel is equal to a 25 year old barrel aging is plain stupid. It's different, I'll give you that. Better or equal, I don't think so.

    We like being different, and love it when our customers and fans recognize that fact!

    DGP

  8. Hi Don, Jess and I have ultimately solved the problem by adding another filter to the process. In the interest of sleeping well at night we installed a 1-micron sediment filter in series with our activated carbon filter which gets rid of absolutely everything and has resulted in crystal clear final product. We distill our own product, so the u"dissolved carbon" was coming from our carbon filter, but wasn't showing itself until driving it around for a while (aka adding vibration and heat to the mix) which was infinitely frustrating since these two components should be working in the other direction with regard to solubility. We have a clear final product but are still wondering how driving the vodka around would precipitate/settle any rogue carbon dust out of the vodka to the bottom of the bottle.

    Cool. Glad you solved the problem.

    We pass spirit prior to bottling through a .25 micron filter to ensure we have no issue or the common "floaties." Part of our current Enolmaster filler.

    Don

  9. I have recently bottled a couple batches of vodka only to find carbon settling out in the bottom of the bottles. At the time of bottling, and even after letting the bottles rest for a week, everything is crystal clear. The strange part is that when we transport bottles to make a delivery, carbon will settle out sometime during the trip. This doesn't seem to make any sense considering that during transportation there is extra vibration and warmer temperatures, both conditions which should cause most particulate matter to dissolve, not precipitate. Any thoughts on why this might be happening or how I can test for dissolved carbon in the shop?

    Are you making your vodka from scratch (raw materials?) What carbon filtering process do you employ. If you are simply adding water to spirit produced by someone else,then there is a filtration problem. Bottom line is that my guess is that somewhere, someone is not filtering out all of the activated carbon.

  10. Dry Fly Distilling will be adding a Second Shift Distiller and is seeking applications from interested parties. Feel free to check us out at www.dryflydistilling.com. E-mails with resumes should be sent to don@dryflydistilling.com and should include "Second Shift Distiller" in the topic line. NO PHONE INQUIRIES PLEASE.

    Dry Fly offers a competitive compensation package including medical insurance and a 401K.

  11. Hi all - Great forum...

    Does anybody know how the TTB handles odd formulations of spirits that don't fit neatly into pre-existing categories? For instance what if someone wanted to mix vodka and rum (or whiskey) together and sell it? How would the TTB handle something like that?

    Not saying I wanted to, but hypothetically I am wondering. Thanks.

    Bevlaw.com is a great resource once you move forward with your labeling project. Robert Lehrman (sp?) can assist you in getting almost any formula approved. He is the party responsible for getting the TTB to approve the first absinthe in the US. We have used him for all of our label approvals. He is both efficient, quick, and inexpensive.

    Don

  12. Hello Guy

    We just started regular hours, going with Friday and Saturdays from 10am to 4pm. Will see how this works for us.

    We are open M-F 8-5 and Saturday 10-4. We do tours and tastings at any time. As a result, we are averaging $15K plus in monthly retail sales.

    Don

  13. We chill filter all of our white spirits prior to bottling. Down to 32-34F and then through a plate and frame filter.

    Carbon filtering is a completely different subject and is done at a different time in our process.

    Don

  14. Paul,

    We are committed through this year, but would happily cooperate if we could cut costs.

    By the way - congrats on an AWESOME review of your Vodka in Spirit Journal!

    Don

  15. The annual National Restaurant Association Show, and it's International Wine Spirits & Beer Event are coming up in April, held here in Chicago. The event is huge, one of the largest if not the largest restaurant shows in the world, and it attracts industry people from all over the world. I have floated the idea in the past of an ADI booth, to promote our industry, distribute information on our members around the country, and pour samples of participating spirits. Now that we have more members and more active distilleries, perhaps this is the year to explore this further.

    What your involvement would likely entail is sending marketing information about your company, and samples if you want them poured, as well as contributing something toward the cost of renting & staffing the booth and printing out a master listing for distribution to buyers. A booth costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $4000, and wouldn't necessarily make sense for any of us to do on our own, given the broad scope of the audience. Together, however, we could all get some promotion from the effort.

    Anyone interested?

    Sonja,

    We have a booth at the NRA. You can contact Kent for information.

    Don

  16. Just for my own personal clarification, why is making more legislation preferable to cleaning up existing? If somebody's in the process of getting their permits, wouldn't it simply add to the workload of both the applicant and the governing body? The general climate appears (at least to this outsider) that what is on the books is confusing enough to both sides. What makes adding more to sift through preferable to cleaning up what's already there...making it more efficient to both sides?

    As I'm sure it shows, I know nothing of the process that has to be followed in WA, but I am genuinely interested. CA has plenty of red tape for me already, and I don't wish that upon anybody else.

    Cheers,

    Paul

    Basically because I think that there should be an advantage to someone who uses Washington grown agriculture. And the farm lobby helped us get this passed. Without their support there is no way this legislation would have been heard, let alone passed in a short session. I am not about to turn my back on those who were instrumental in getting us this put in place. Loyalty is still important to me.

    And what is currently on the books is not at all confusing to us or the 2-3 other producers licensed under this law currently.

    Don

  17. Robert,

    As always clearly thought out and concise remarks.

    Rather than changing legislation that was widely supported, endorsed by numerous agricultural lobby groups (which assisted in it's passing), and quite frankly took a significant amount of effort and money on our behalf, why not create new legislation that addresses the needs of other small scale spirit producers? This new legislation could create a new classification that would include the activities of those who do NGS flavoring and distilling, as well as items that rely on things not grown in Washington. Maybe the new legislation would set an annual license fee higher than the current law, giving a small advantage to producers who do adopt a "Washington" approach. It could include tasting and retail sales provisions as well.

    It's not hard to figure out. It will take both significant effort and some money. But then that's how we got done what we did in 2007. So instead of dwelling on the fact that the original legislation was not a free for all package (nor was it ever intended to be - GS feel free to quote this), why not put some money and effort towards creating something that addresses everyones needs. Want our support? Add provisions to the new law that remove the 20,000 PG ceiling (possibly adapting the 60,000 PG number used in some states) on production as we will eventually either need to address this in the current bill or could do so in a new bill.

    Don

  18. I have noticed that whiskeys such as Pendelton and Snake River Stampede are distilled in Canada and then bottled in their respective facilities. Is this recommended? Is it a way to get started with lower capital investments, and without having to wait for the whiskey to age? Do people do this with vodka? Is it difficult to maintain quality control?

    Thoughts anyone?

    If you want to be a distiller, then distill. If you want to be solely a marketing company, then take that path. Not much "craft" to putting something someone else made into a bottle right?

    Don

  19. Ah Mr. Stone,

    I thought you were beyond this stage. Too bad. You are an angry person. I however am not going to play a game of selectively quoting media and dragging you through the mud. I see no reason to stoop to your level.

    With your love of Oregon, maybe a move is in order. It is a wonderful state! I'll try not to shed any tears.

    Don

  20. Because it is to restrictive. Washington would have been better off mirroring the Oregon law that treats all distilleries the same. A less restrictive distillery law would be good for jobs, the economy, and small artisanal distillers such as myself who create a craft product, but don't want to follow DF's business plan. Who cares of Jim Beam/Jack Daniel's et al want to come to Washington and open a distillery? Having the field open to all would be good for jobs, the economy, and putting Washington State in the same leadership position Oregon now enjoys.

    Washington is not Oregon. The agricultural component (51%) is not unique to Washington. And given the importance of agriculture in our state, I think is is the right thing to do. I would oppose any change in that portion of the law, and am fairly confident that there are other groups that would oppose this as well. The reason the craft distillery bill passed in the first place was this provision. I know. I was there and with the process every step of the way. FYI - I'm tired of the "DF business plan" line. It's had nothing to do with our plan. It has everything to do with what we were told we would have to do to get a bill passed. Those who had minimal involvement in the process or discussions would have no knowledge of what it actually took to get the law changed. And that my friends is fact and not conjecture.

    Go ahead and approach the senate and house. I'll see you at the hearings in 2010 0r 2011 if you can get it through committee.

    Don

  21. I have conditional approval for my craft license and am starting my application for a commercial distillery license. I've pretty much made it through the TTB process now waiting for final approval. I had to delay with the TTB until I fully understood and could coordinate our efforts between the state and federal regulations. I can now have a craft distillery license with tasting room and direct product sales benefits and a commercial license with non restrictive raw materials benefit under a single TTB license. No co-mingling of products however. Also it is possible under state law to get a food and spirits service license and sell drinks and food in a separate building on the distillery premises if one wants to go that direction. It is then possible to sell one's own spirits and also others whether manufactured by a Washington state commercial or craft distillery. One must follow standard state food and spirits service regulations.

    Is anyone in Washington state interested working with the Legislature to revise laws on tasting room locations and perhaps softening the raw materials limitations?

    Why soften the raw ingredient clause?

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