HedgeBird

In the state of Pennsylvania holders of a "Limited Distillery Licenses" are limited to not more than one hundred thousand (100,000) gallons of distilled liquor per year. http://www.lcb.state.pa.us/cons/groups/system_internet/documents/webasset/000832.pdf

Sounds like a fun build! The first thing I would change with my design/build, if doing it over again, is to put all internal plates (both my four valve plates and two dephlamator plates) at seems in the column instead of trying to slide the plates down inside the column and attaching them from the inside. You probably wont have as many issues if you are using 6" factory pipe, buy my column is 11" rolled plate and not perfectly round. Getting the plates in place and level (without banging the @#$% out of them) was a huge pain. Brazing plates a foot and a half down the inside of an 11" tube with the oxy/acetylene torch was beyond a pain. On the final condenser I still need to build I am just going to cut the tube at each spot a plate goes, and then braze or weld the slightly too large plates from the outside.

Just to follow up on the feed grade vs. food grade grains as i am not all that familiar with the terms.. my local mill asked me if i needed grains that are "food grade" and explained that they go through a separate mill that has higher inspection standards, but basically uses the same grains.. We are both assuming I do not need that as long as the grains are fairly clean, preservative free, etc. Can anyone add anymore insight into this food/feed grade question, or share what type of quality milled grain they order? What else should we be looking out for as we source grains?

I am looking into purchasing tanks for my alcohol storage (foreshots, heads, tails, low-wines, spirits, etc) and a friend asked why I don't just use beer kegs, and then compressed air to pump out the liquids. Smaller "Corny Kegs / Soda kegs" actually have lids making them easier to clean.. Instead of buying an alcohol pump we can just move liquids with regulated and filtered compressed air at 10psi.. I knew brewers/bars use CO2 for kegs as oxygen screw up beer, but would there be any concern with pressurizing alcohol with regular compressed air? The tanks would only need to be pressurized for short periods of time when actually transferring (pump low wines back up and into still, pump spirits into bottling / mixing tank, etc.) and would normally be stored not under pressure. Anyone already doing this?

I do have a Sterlco thermostatic valve I am considering using, but its probe is over 6" long so it would need to stick out the other side of the condenser if placed in the fashion you have shown. Your concern is that if placed outside/downstream of the condenser cold water around the well would never heat and open the valve as its too farm away from the vapor path/actual heat exchange? If i want to do a constant flow, I would need a very small amount of water constantly going through the thermowell, and then place the valve on a seperate full-sized coolant exit line? Another option might be to mount the thermowell vertically through the top steam chamber, and down into the coolant chamber?

Thanks for the input nick! I will take a look at dropping to 0.5" through pipes and see what that looks like on paper. Perhaps I do that and skip the baffles..

As i had to buy a full stick of 6" ill probably just make it longer than 4' (something like 6') and go with 3/4" pipe instead of 1" to get more surface area.. I have a few ideas for adding baffles as well. Should be a fun build.. Thanks for all the feedback.

I just purchased a 10' stick of 6" type L from my local plumbing supply place; $739

This probably does not help you at this point, but between my gas line and steam supply line I ended up doing about 200 ft. of 2" black pipe as well. My local home-depot stocked 2" pipe and fittings and would cut and thread a 10' stick to any number/length of pieces on the spot, as I waited, at no charge. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=RIDGID+300+PIPE+THREADER&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=RIDGID+300+PIPE+THREADER&_sacat=0

so a 6" x 4' shotgun with about nine 1" through tubes sounds more appropriate? I just got done with my dephlegmator, and was hoping I could take the easy way out on the final product condenser. The good news is I think I learned enough putting the dephlegmator together that this build should go much easier..

Starting to think about the condenser for the 150 gallon / 11" column still I am building. I realize condenser sizing is related to heat input and not boiler size. My still is steam jacketed and I have a 325,000 BTU steam boiler. The still will be used for both initial stripping runs, and for final spirit runs. Currently I am considering an 8' long liebig condenser with a 1" tube and 2" shell (copper). My other though is to bump it up to a double liebig with 1" / 2" / 4" pipes with cooling water on the inside and outside and vapor running down the 2" pipe. Would love any feedback/thoughts you folks are willing to provide!

So, its been a year since I updated this thread; or made much progress on this project. Short story for the delay is I was able to purchase a big old warehouse here in Lancaster to house my distillery, and have spent the past year working like a dog on renovations and improvements for the distillery and for the other tenants that are sharing the building with me. In addition to the distillery the basement and first floor of the building also house a coffee roaster and a small start-up brewery. The building itself ended up being a much larger project than anticipated, but it should make for an awesome place to go to work everyday and a great place for people to visit. At this point I have finally finished most of the construction/renovation work and the distillery project is now moving right along. I have completed Local city zoning approval, received my state pre-approval and also now have my federal licence in hand. Yesterday we fired up the new 400,000 BTU natural gas steam boiler and mash tun for the first time so things are suddenly moving fast and the still is now a much higher priority.. This week we finished TIG welding up the dome/barrel. Here are a few quick pictures to give you an idea. Welding in action: partially sanded/ground weld seem and machined dome. Rough finish on the weld seem and dome: We definitely ran into some challenges along the way, but things ended up much better than expected and I think once I do my finish sand/buff it will look like it was magically bent from one solid piece of copper! Next steps for the dome are to cut and fit the man-way and sight glass, drill and fit bolt studs on the top for the column flange, and attach the stainless ring to the bottom of the dome. At this point the plan is to braze all those connections. I have also finished brazing the dephalgmeter sections so that is ready to be fit into its pipe and have the inlets/outlets and flanges brazed together.. found a few more pics.. these are cutting the hole in the top of the dome for the column. there are a few more pics on ye-old facebook page as well for anyone interested: https://www.facebook.com/ThistleFinchDistillery

Thanks for the responses everyone! So it seems I did not do a great job of describing the situation! I have not yet ran the steam delivery pipes, and will certainly run that larger than 1". Its the actual inlet on the mash tun itself that is only 1" and I am/was concerned that this would be a restriction for the boiler I sized. Nick; Yeah, thats part of what they are being paid for, but honestly steam work is just not that common anymore and I do not want to rely exclusively on any one opinion. The first HVAC company to look at my project recommended that I purchase a process boiler. A bit of studying on my own and talking to others and I realized this was totally inappropriate. Meekat, thanks for doing the maths! I was thinking I would run a 2" main off the boiler header with 1.5" branches going to this mash tun and to the still.. I could jump it up to a 2.5" main coming off the header, and 2" branches going to the equipment.. I guess to summarize, my concern is that I am looking at buying a boiler with a 3" header; and need to send that steam to tanks with 1" openings.

Howdy all, I am working on installing my boiler and ran into a potential issue I did not expect. My plan is to install a 320,000 BTU (output capacity) atmospheric steam boiler to power my 300 gallon mash tun. My heating/cooling contractor has expressed concern that the 1" steam supply line leading into the mash tun may not have the capacity to carry that much steam/BTUs. The over pressure valve on the mash tun inlet is set to 0.5 Bar / 7 PSI. If I recall the previous owner of this mash tun mentioned that he did trip this release on occasion. I tried to do the steam/BTU capacity of various pipe dimension myself but I don't think I am doing it right. Anyone have any insight? Thanks!

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! It looks like my local jurisdiction uses the 2009 International Building Codes. After speaking with the fire marshal he does not see any reason I would need a boiler room as what I am looking at putting in is under 400,000 BTU and also operates under 15 PSI. He cautioned that he sees no reason I would need it as an incidental use, but that I should check with my commercial code officer as well. Not sure what makes a boiler an incidental use or not? I am meeting with the commercial code enforcement officer tomorrow and will find out what he thinks. Is anyone familiar enough with the 2009 IBC to opine if they think I should have a boiler room assuming I am classified as F1?

I am working on getting a 350,000 BTU natural gas fired atmospheric steam boiler installed at my location. The one company I am getting a quote from to do the install in convinced that I will need to build a dedicated and fire rated boiler room. My research seems to indicate that a boiler that is either under 400,000 BTU or one that operates at under 15psi does not need a dedicated fire proof room. Additionally I have seen comments that indicate even if you go above 400,000 BTU or 15psi you still do not need a dedicated room if there is a fire suppression system. My building is fully spriklered. The other company that I have received a quote from did not mention needing a boiler room. I also can't recall any other distillery that I have visited having a dedicated boiler room, and many of them have/had significantly larger boilers than what I am looking to install. I am in Pennsylvania. If I do need a boiler room, what authority would it be that requires it? Labor and Industry, state codes, local codes? If anyone had run into a similar situation or has any insight into this issue I would sure appreciate anything you can share! Thanks!

Ever consider making a version that would control steam powered stills?

The Low Profile Rack has a 4” forklift opening. It is one of our recommendations for stacking six barrels high, because the stack has a lower center of gravity. All you sacrifice is the ability to get your head between the barrels in a stack. The wine can still be worked in place http://www.westernsquare.com/breweries_and_distillieries/brewery_barrel_racks.html This manufacturer implies that you can stack wine barrels 6 high.. If you do a Google image search for "stackable wine barrel racks" you can see lots of stacks that are six high and many that are more than that.. https://www.google.com/search?q=wine+barrel+stacks&num=100&hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=mfKkUKj0Ls3h0wG-hYCgBA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1199&bih=825&sei=nfKkUI-wGc6o0AGB3oFQ I think I would stack 6, and then start contacting rack manufacturers for more details if I wanted to go higher..

might be some options here: http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/19/cone-bottom-tanks http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/347/open-top-cone-bottom-tanks

Hey Robert, Can you please share what the minimum quantity order would be for custom 750ml glass bottles with Topline Products Company, Inc,? Thanks! Hedge

http://bookstore.gpo.gov/actions/GetPublication.do?stocknumber=869-076-00103-8

Just an idea, but do you have an air compressor? I have been looking into "sandpiper" pumps. http://www.sandpiperpump.com/wps/portal/fluidMetering/warrenrupp/home/!ut/p/c5/rY7BjoIwGISfhQdY_r9YaTmC1YhaXJai2AtBs0sAEZNVyfbpF-NZT84c5jDJfAMaBp-KW1UWl6o7FUfIQLs5xYkSySqQfPVJMAzXgvpi7HDFYAsZ0jyp_86hacxXbWJH1XopjeylmC0lS3uZXokSElXamaj5IImIMVLrHqVHNrN46ovyNw-4BQvQ5bHbD9Tt_ccLrvvo8Yl8hGjetd-wA82erQwB6r3vq31r94fWRptwj48c6nJGied6YwbZBM7trWl-RGZ8y_oHCjDt4A!!/dl3/d3/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/ http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANDPIPER-SB1-A-1-NPT-STAINLESS-S-S-ALUMINUM-AIR-PNEUMATIC-DIAPHRAGM-PUMP-/290728403419?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item43b0c361db#ht_1946wt_905

Wow. That think looks awesome. So many questions.. How thick is your copper plate? How did you create the dome? How is it going to be heated? How big of a man-way did you go with? You need to post some more pics.

Jedd - I have access to a slip roller so I did role my own pipe and body sections, but I did not know anyone with the machinery to do the rings. I had my rings custom made by these guys: http://www.nmfrings.com I was able to specify the material, thickness, overhang size, number and size of bolt holes, etc. They also ground down the welds on the sides I requested so they would not be in the way of the gasket or copper connections. Turn around was fast and I though their prices for custom work was really reasonable. Yeah, I am also not sure about the Armaflex: "With full adhesive coverage attachment, the surface to which it is applied may operate to a limit of 180°F (82°C)." How about Nomaco Kflex steam pipe insulation for both gasket material and insulation: http://www.drillspot...heet_insulation Its NSF (National Sanitary Foundation) approved under Standard 169 for potable water or food service applications. It has a temp range of -297 to 300DF and only $36.91 for a 1/2" thick sheet that would be big enough for all my flanges.. its also available in 1" sheet as well for use as actual insulation. The current design does have the stainless cover just hanging from the flange lip. Figuring out some way to attach it to the bottom would be better, and also probably look cleaner. Ill have to think about this some more! Nick - Thanks for sharing details of your Carl. They realy are beutifull things! So with the de-foamer in place you basically have three 3" pipes leading from the boiler to the column and the rest is closed in with a plate? How much clearance do you have between the de-foamer and the first plate? If I try to add something similar I might need to adjust my plate height. Violent - Would you conside brazing an option for the stainless to copper connection or do you think tig is really the only option? I will have 5 stainless to copper rings/flanges all told.. PeteB - Yeah, its probably fair to assume my big rings are far from flat and I will need a fairly thick gasket.

I have a few small propane torches a small oxy/mapp welding/cutting torch with a tiny tip and a MAPP torch with the standard ignition trigger torch. Even with the MAPP torch I am not easily able to get stuff hot enough to braze. I have done a few small pieces but it takes a long time and is hard to get a nice clean connection. I have about 20+ 1.5 inch pipe connections on the dephlegmator alone so I definitely need more heat. I am debating getting a really big propane tip that I can run off my grill style tanks, an acetylene/air (not oxygen) turbo torch, or just dragging everything over to my friends foundry and going at it with his oxy/acetylene torch. The acetylene/air torch I am looking at has the “MC" or "B" Tank Connections. Seems like it would work good for at least the smaller connections, and possible for the larger ones if I back it up with a helper on a second torch. Anyone ever use one of these style torches? It would be nice not to have to use oxy/acetylene for every braze joint as I will need to schedule time in my friends shop for that.. Nick, I am also curious about the de-foamer. Please do post some pictures/details! I have designed in a plate by-pass system. At this point its fairly simple 3/4 pipe out the bottom of the plate through the column wall into a down pipe and valve, and then to the plate below. The layout I have right now has just one valve per plate so I will have to "defeat" the plates in order from top down. (look at me using my new terminology defeated/operational vs. open/closed!). Going with more valves, or three way valves would give more options, but it seems like overkill. The kettle is stainless, about 2" thick (double wall/jacket) and has a rounded half-circle lip on the top.. I have two 34" inch stainless angle rings with bolt holes. One will get welded to the kettle, and the other welded/brazed to the copper body of the still. These flanges then get bolted together with a gasket between them. The leg-out of the angle rings protrudes about an inch past the sides of the kettle. The plan is to insulate around the kettle, and then hang a thin piece of rolled, patterned stainless from the lip of the flange to enclose and protect the 1" insulation. Photo of rings and sketch of connection below.. Anyone have any suggestions on suitable insulation. Also, how does everyone feel about sheet cork for gasket seals?