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Roger last won the day on January 28

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About Roger

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  1. Spirits Competitions

    Honestly unless you have come up with some incredible speciality spirit, and are realitvely new, you would be better off to just enter any of the myriad of "Pay to Play" HoneyBooBoo competitions out there. It seems like most people who play that game enter contests far away from their actual location, so it adds more drama to the purchased medals. Also make sure it has an official sounding name like "The Elon Musk Intergalactic Bourbon Challenge" We have a Quasi-illery near us that actually entered and won a bunch of medals in a "competition" for several different unreleased aged whiskeys that were still halfway through their way to being straight (+/- 16 months). A rye, bourbon, corn, etc. must have been awesome ! Playing Devils advocate, wouldn't that mean that the actual spirit you eventually release is different than the one you purchased the medal for, making said fake award even less valid ? But people seem to buy it, so follow the sheep. ps: They also were victorious with their 100% NGS vodka and gin. prost
  2. Possible Mash Infection, Need Help

    Aren't most large open top fermenters dosed with antibiotics, which is the reason the EPA wants to change the regulations on mixing distillers/Brewers grains into the commercial beef and pork industry ? So while many distilleries.do in fact use open fermenters, how many are dosing to prevent infection ?
  3. Plastic vs Stainless tanks

    This is not only about static buildup in the poly tanks of GNS. There are also fire code issues and some fire inspectors are now disallowing plastic due to its performance in facility fires. A poly tote in a fire will melt or fail and dump its contents causing a burning wave of liquid.

    You can just charge more for it. I believe Booker sells "ovenproof" . It is very common in the industry. The rules dictate what goes in, not what happens once it's in there. Prost
  5. Small Scale Grain Liquid Separation

    As real distillers, let's at least try to all get along when we are talking about process. There's plenty of time to argue with the bartenders For the corn issue, we have tried dewatering / lautering a variety of ways. One of the things that gets lost in the translation when talking about if you can or not can do it, is the actual yield and additional cost. We have tried everything from shaker table concept, to screens over barrels, to our real screen bottom commercial mash tun, to slits in the bottom of copper pipes in bulk milk tanks. They all "work" to some degree, but the one constant is that unlike for example a barley which allows you to sparge down through, the corn has a tendency to "back up" the sparge water, and then slowly drain through. You essentially re-float the sugars in solution, where it then re-adheres to the protiens (ground husk). It's like taking a bath in dirty water. You never really get clean. The example given above by Still Holler makes the point. His laborious process is yielding roughly 22 proof gallons for 350# of lautered corn. The TTB and USDA expect between 5-5.1 proof gallons per bushel (56#) which means that if he did not lauter, he could expect 31.25 proof gallons from that 350# +/-. We encountered those same form of horrible numbers, which is why we stopped doing it. In the end it's not really about if it can or can't be done, it's about what the cost will be if you chose to do it. As for Paul at AFD i believe he, like Joe Dehner has always tried to take the "long view" to suggest equipment that fits a real production facility and process, vs the hobby shop set up. Prost.
  6. Sudden Drop in Vodka Proof/Slight Cloudiness

    Try shutting the defleg water off quickly and completely after 45min or so of column to equalization. This will blast the heads out and keep them from smearing. Then go full defleg again for 15 mins or so, then bleed into the hearts.
  7. Craft is Not a Commodity

    Joe - Sadly you completely misinterpret the data. While it could certainly be argued that 99.9% of your customers (those buying bulk spirits from you) do not care where their bulk products comes from, that is not the same as 99.9% of end customers "not-caring" about where the products originated. For example 80% of people who go anywhere on vacation bring home some form of Geographically branded merchandise. In the old days it was snow globes of the statue of liberty and T-Shirts, now it's more typically craft beer, wine or spirits. The wine industry is very strict about viticulture, fortification origin, etc and the beer industry is all local, but unfortunately Big Alcohol has embraced laws that obfuscate the actual origin of spirits to the detriment of the true craft / local centric culture. You even appear to veil the actual origin of some of the bulk products you sell on this very site, I would assume as an attempt to even further push the false narrative that what people don't know, won't hurt them. A self serving and self fulfilling prophesy that goes something like " If I dump enough cheap Bio-Ethanol on the system by pretending that it's ok with the end consumer, eventually every distiller in the country will have to stop making their own alcohol, because they will not be able to compete with the price points and margins of fake craft products ". I completely reject your assertion that 99.9% of "end customers" are either too dumb, cheap, or non-caring, to pay a premium for a hand crafted product. In fact that's not even the argument of the fake craft distillers who buy bulk products which they pretend are their own craft spirits. That actual hidden argument goes something like, " if the end customer is actually so stupid that fake distillers can dupe them into paying more, regardless of where the spirits actually comes from, then it should be considered "craft industry standard". This obvious because otherwise all " fake craft distillers" selling NGS Vodka, Gin and flavored liqueurs would be pricing their products the same as can be found on the bottom shelf of any inner city liquor store. Or better than that, at $1.20 +/- cheaper that "Barton'esq" Vodka, because "fake craft" distillers have the FIT reduction that large producers don't. But they don't do that. Why ? Because as long as they can, the fake craft distillers will charge the absolute maximum possible for the products they spend pennies on, provided that the customer doesn't find out. The success of craft spirits, craft beer and farm wine, is dependent on our ability to actually charge enough to offset the higher cost of production to make those goods in-house. All of that is contingent upon the trust that the customer places in our industry to not deceive them. We spend a lot of time and energy educating our customers about the process of making our spirits, and we hear time and again how they hear exactly the same things from another local "distiller". The only difference is that on the back of their bottles in really fine print it say "100% NGS". We, and I use that collectively for all real distillers, unwittingly support the fake distillery industry, and we need to figure out how to fix that. I am sorry that your attempt at running a true craft distillery failed, even thought literally hundreds of us are thriving. and I appreciate the concept of you as a distiller selling your bulk products into the base of the 3 tiered system and to manufacturers who do not pretend to be actual distillers. That market place is very price sensitive, and your products obviously fit that bill. At the same time, try not to destroy the industry that we chose to operate in, by pushing the false narrative that end customers are too stupid or too cheap to care about their purchase decision. What's on your label ?
  8. Craft is Not a Commodity

    Waaahhh Mom, it's really hard. Do I have to really do it if I can scam the customer instead? Please don't make me? I've got an idea, lets encourage Amazon to apply for their DSP and then the totes can be shipped right to their warehouse where they can add the drops of flavor and ship it direct. They can brand it "One Click Craft". Lets just eliminate the middle man all together : You !
  9. Craft is Not a Commodity

    Joe - Luv ya, and it was me that made the comment to which you refer,. I find your business logic completely wrong. I feel your advocation of minimizing the value of craft is an absurd and destructive model. You seem to have no problem selling into the craft market so that pretend craft distillers can charge exhorbinate prices for your commodity products, and you claim that because some fake distillers do this, that everone should, or at the very least everyone is complicit in the scam. Let me make this perfectly clear : NO, every craft distiller does not buy your or anyone else's cheap bulk commodity spirits and pass it off with some nuance of marketing trickery as thier own. In fact your entire business model and the model of bulk commodity spirits producers desperately need a significant portion of real craft distillers to NOT buy your products, so the fake distilleries that you sell to in bulk can continue to dupe their customers into thinking they are buying real craft, for which they pay a higher price. if the craft brewing industry had followed the model you support ( buy the majority of their beer from a few suppliers and flavor it, but pretend the made it) the only brands would be Budwiser and Coors. Fortunately that industry was full of hard working creative entrepreneurs willing to put in the work to give their customers and local communities real craft made products and the customers don't mind paying extra for it. So please don't paint this industry with your myopic personal profit view. It's bad enough that companies dump commodity product on the market making it harder for actual distilers to remain price competitve without economy of scale, but to at the same time say that we are all fakes is blatantly offensive.
  10. Bourbon and rye for sale, 53g barrels

    If you think your path to fame and fortune will be found in repackaging commodity bourbon, perhaps you should put off quitting your day job for just a bit.
  11. Bourbon

    Another bartender
  12. New tax reform

    I believe the last retroactive tax was done by Clinton, and it wasn't good.
  13. Contract Malt Whiskey Production

    Interesting. An environmentally friendly craft distiller who doesn't actually have a distillery so the whiskey can be produced by any distillery anywhere, and they also use locally sourced heritage malt, but it doesn't actually have to be that malt. Yep, sound like a typical "Craft "Distiller". I can see it now, "Uncle Remus Pacific Gold Single Malt". Made by faries and lepracauns on our custom designed stills that run on recycled marijuana puffs. Sweet.
  14. Merry Christmas

    Merry Christmas to all
  15. Federal Excise Tax and my thoughts

    I'm just curious: For those of you who are actually distillers, are you planning on lowering the prices of your products to allow yourselves to be more price competitive with Big Gulp pricing, or are you going to maintain status quo with pricing and hope to keep the savings ? What would be great is if we could fund an advertising program with a small portion of our savings, to try and educate the public about the difference between True Craft Single Distillery Spirits, and bulk produced warmed up commodity spirits.