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Al The Chemist

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  1. @Silk City Distillers, have you had any luck with esterification on a played setup? I’ve hit some walls trying that. Wonder if there's somrething I'm missing in the proccess.
  2. The copper state is an interesting one. It could be a catch 22. Not neutralizing the sulfuric acid is an upside. Though not neutralizing the sulfides is going to be a problem. The sulfites are not a major issue as they are very volatile and exposing the distillate to air for a while should get rid of them. Though the rotten egg sulfides are quite heavy. The heat and alcohol content on the plates should provide a good platform for esterification. Though the time parameter could be a challenge. Even in favorable conditions, most documentation recommends a minimum 24 hours for esterification. You can push the plate process with a full dephleg for a while. thumpers with a valve bypass can be super useful here. You can pre charge the thumper for esterification. Then run heads through the bypass then engage the thumper.
  3. Stumbled onto this thread a little late. Adding sulfuric acid does help esterification, through it still depends on the water content and heat conditions. Even a relatively high gravity wash (14-17%) will still have too much water to allow for good esterification. Meanwhile if you add sulfuric acid to the wash, the acid will start interacting and create sulfites and sulfides. The sulfides (rotten egg smell and the likes) can be absorbed and filtered out by a reaction with copper, though the sulfites (burned matches) do not react with copper. So too much, or too long on the sulfuric acid during fermentation or in the wash at any point can be an issue. Adding sulfuric to low/high wines will work better to promote esterification. Though I wouldn’t drink that product, I’d redistill it. Using sulfuric acid as a stabilizer in a final product sounds a bit suspect to me. It’s a very strong acid and I would avoid drinking it at any concentration.
  4. Got it, so you get a full “pelicose" layer forming on that dunder? Considering fruit don’t really carry their more traditional flavors over fermentation and distillation, did you find any that help the more banana, butter scotch, caramel, vanilla, side of things? I figured Bananas would be an obvious one, but wondering if there is something more interesting and adventurous there. I’m personally trying to aim for something rich and heavy, less light fruity. With hopefully a touch of light acid on the pallet (along the lines of pine apple) to balance things out a bit. Hope I'm not beign overly specific here
  5. Thanks for the info everyone. I’ll keep my fermentations closed. If you’re open to share, I’d love to hear more about the “flavored dunder”. The backset I store is essentially sterile, do you rely on natural bacteria and yeast for the fruit itself to kick up the process? @adamOVD the CO2 tip is interesting, I haven’t considered that. I’ll definitely give degassing a go before fermenting. As for heating. I have heat elements operated by an inkbird to keep the wash at the ideal temperature for the yeast. My rum fermentations tend to go pretty strong. I pushed the SG on this latest one a bit high, though so far so good.
  6. Hey folks, I’m on a mission to make a rum that doesn’t just have hints of funk and fruit, but has those flavors clear and present. I’ve managed to get a fair grasp of “synthetic acidification” for the wash, though I’m feeling like I’m missing some of the organic chaos in the process. I’ve heard a lot of talk about open fermentation for whisky. And from the conversations here about Ph crashing in rum I can only gather some people are getting bacterial infections from open fermentation. Though I haven’t heard any open discussions on this (at least none that I could find). I’m used to fermenting covered, sanitized and locked. Anyone interested to talk a bit about their experiences with open fermentation for rum? Specifically for the wild organism factor. Cheers!
  7. I've heard mention of people charging a thumper with backset combined with deep tails. Seems to me like that will not have enough alcohol content to do the trick in the thumper. I guess the idea was to try and “infuse” more flavor into a rum. Was curious to hear your thoughts.
  8. @Kindred Spirits, I'm looking into commissioning a single vertical thumper for a small scale test. I am worried about the stability of a double retort stack on a small scale. Curious what you guys think about a plate, then thumper? So essentially a plate to strip and a thumper to redistill and infuse. Footprint is exactly the issue I'm trying to resolve.
  9. Jumping in 4 years late on this one. @DrDistillation, as to your comment of thumpers falling out of favor with the advent of bubble plats. If you are going purely for a higher ABV off the bat I’d agree there. Though for things like Rum for instance, where you want a secondary reaction chamber for esterification with a lower water content. Or any other flavor infusion phase that is not botanical, I really can’t find any other solution besides a thumper. Would be curious to hear more of your thoughts on this. I’ve tried many different types of still configuration for Rum (without a thumper) and have found that even multiple pot distillation is not amazing. The plates separate the esters too far into heads and tails and most of the ester have an evaporation temp either above or below ethanol. @JustAndy, do you have any additional information about the pressure buildups for different amount and height of fluids? I am looking into building a vertical thumper for a 3kw 10gal boiler and I don’t want to scale things wrong and over pressurize.
  10. A bypass valve above and below the thumper is part of the planned design. I'll see what I can pull off.
  11. Tested my cuts. Conclusions. Does a “synthetic dunder” (IE: deep tails + Backset + controlled acids) work? Yes, 100% it does. The next experiment will likely be a vertical thumper setup, as the distillation method seems to be the obvious next issue. Heads: - Really nice, strong tropical fruit, coconut and pineapple, nice and fresh high notes on both the nose and pallet. Though far too headsy to blend. Hearts: - Almost clean and neutral. A bare hint of pineapple, though (in my taste) not enough to distinguish it between a vodka and a Caribbean rum. Maybe more reminiscent of a cachaça. Early tails: - Really nice deep funky aromas, molasses and moldy cheese but has that tailsy “burnt iron” finish. Wondering if cask aging will remedy that over time. Deep tails: - Explosive foot fungus and heavy cream, way to tailsy to consider blending. (went into dunder) Would have loved to get the heads and tails esters appear in the hearts. Considering the evaporation temperature of these esters and the distillation method used, I guess this is not surprising.
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