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Falling Rock

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Falling Rock last won the day on February 26

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About Falling Rock

  • Rank
    Active Contributor
  • Birthday 03/26/1957

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    dirckdonson@yahoo.com

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Arkansas
  • Interests
    Distillation, fermentation, sharing enjoyable drinks with the world!

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  1. TTB Labeling Requirements for Non-Potable Bitters

    27 CFR 19.5 - Manufacturing products unfit for beverage use. § 19.5 Manufacturing products unfit for beverage use. (a)General. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, apothecaries, pharmacists, or manufacturers who manufacture or compound any of the following products using tax paid or tax determined distilled spirits are not required to register and qualify as a distilled spirits plant (processor): (1) Medicines, medicinal preparations, food products, flavors, flavoring extracts, and perfume, conforming to the standards for approval of nonbeverage drawback products found in §§ 17.131 through 17.137 of this chapter, whether or not drawback is actually claimed on those products. Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, a formula does not need to be submitted if drawback is not desired; (2) Patented and proprietary medicines that are unfit for use for beverage purposes; (3) Toilet, medicinal, and antiseptic preparations and solutions that are unfit for use for beverage purposes; (4) Laboratory reagents, stains, and dyes that are unfit for use for beverage purposes; and (5) Flavoring extracts, syrups, and concentrates that are unfit for use for beverage purposes. (b)Exception for beverage products. Products identified in part 17 of this chapter as being fit for beverage use are alcoholic beverages. Bitters, patent medicines, and similar alcoholic preparations that are fit for beverage purposes, although held out as having certain medicinal properties, are also alcoholic beverages. These products are subject to the provisions of this part and must be manufactured on the bonded premises of a distilled spirits plant. (c)Submission of formulas and samples. When requested by the appropriate TTB officer or when the manufacturer wishes to ascertain whether a product is unfit for beverage use, the manufacturer will submit the formula and a sample of the product to the appropriate TTB officer for examination. TTB will determine whether the product is unfit for beverage use and whether manufacture of the product is exempt from qualification requirements. (d)Change of formula. If TTB finds that a product manufactured under paragraph (a) of this section is being used for beverage purposes, or for mixing with beverage spirits other than by a processor, TTB will notify the manufacturer to stop manufacturing the product until the formula is changed to make the product unfit for beverage use and the change is approved by the appropriate TTB officer. However, the provisions of this paragraph will not prohibit products which are unfit for beverage use from use in small quantities for flavoring drinks at the time of serving for immediate consumption. ( 26 U.S.C. 5002, 5171) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've always been amazed that Angostura bitters are on the shelf with cocktail mixers at grocery stores, yet are 44%.
  2. Farm Distillery Floor-plan Feedback Request

    Lose all the walls you can! Mass space will be more important than segregating things. Start with a three bay sink, so you won't have to change it. I see molasses, so rum? Good would be turning a molasses ferment in three days. Your fermentation tanks should be at least six times your still capacity. How often do you want to distill and how fast can you turn a ferment?
  3. Rice Whiskey

    Grind the rice. The finer you grind it, the less it needs cooked and the better the conversion. Unfortunately, the finer the grind, the harder to separate, if that is a factor. I heat the rice flour to 200 F while stirring, turn off heat, coast down to 185 and add Sebstar HTL, minimal stir occasionally as it coasts down to 155 F and add gluco, minimal stir and coast down to pitching temp. When I say minimal stir, I mean a few minutes every half hour. Rice is like molasses, the Specific Gravity is very hard to read correctly. Doesn't mean it didn't convert.
  4. Biggest surprise

    State is harder than Fed. Fed has it all mapped out. State, County seems to be feeling their way through it. Most of it isn't hard, but an endurance test.
  5. Fed Permit For Sale

    "Bob's" name is on the Permits. Bob sells company. Bob gets a seat on the Board or a new title and a small salary for not showing up. This very thing happens in airlines also.
  6. Water, water everywhere...

    Moving review from one agency to another, worked for our distillery in a dif way. State Dept of Health got interested in our water usage as hazmat and sent our permit request to the State EPA. State EPA reviewed our processes and commended us on our "Green" stance. We reuse all cooling water indefinitely, we use hot stillage for next mashing while it's hot (saving water and energy), separating solids for animal feed and compost... EPA was happy, recused itself and we had permit in a week.
  7. Rapid Distillation - The Hot Rod by Detroit Stillworks

    I was in a "DSP" food processing plant recently that has over 40 alcohol products all labeled "Produced and Bottled By" and claiming to be the only distillery in the state! They give tours, sampling and show you one 200 gallon still and three 200 gallon fermentation tanks. I'm pretty sure they don't even bottle or warehouse it there. Is it legal for the "product" to never even pass through the DSP Bonded area?
  8. passivating stainless

    How about citric acid or even lemon juice? There are marine companies on the Gulf Coast using citric acid because the EPA cannot stop them from dropping lemon juice on SS ship parts and railings and washing it into the ocean...and it works. Google it...
  9. Distillery Location

    You have a great place and while not as far off the beaten path as you...we have no cell service. That causes some people to loose their minds. We drive about four miles to get to a cell tower to make long distance calls. Everything here is working out perfectly. There is also no Code Permitting or enforcement in my county. The ambiguity of the TTB is crazy. Inspector to inspector, Fed, State and County...it should all be spelled out and the same for all.
  10. Distillery Location

    I have 80 acres. The property/building for the distillery is 200 yards from my house with road frontage on a State Hwy. Has it's own gated entrance to the road. The distillery is completely fenced, but with gates, from the other property. The fence seemed to be a key factor. I got a new address for the distillery property. In most states, you get a new address from the 911 Emergency Service, not the post office. Once I had the new address I leased the property from me to the distillery. Neither the TTB or the State ask any questions about the distillery being on my personal property even though the lease docs showed me leasing it to my own business. State to State can be huge and in town, city, zoning seems to be the nightmare. As already stated, pick your location carefully. As to getting the local stuff done first. My state would not allow me to tender an application until I had the Federal Permit in hand. All the discrepancies make this a very hard business. Having 50,000 gallons of petrol under a gas station next to a hospital is easier because they do it every day.
  11. Output and Revenue

    Nothing there is tragic...bottle, label, closure gets better with volume.
  12. Transfer in bond to Winery

    This is an issue I have had a problem with. Currently, local winery buys GNS and mixes down, adds to wine and calls it sherry. I don't understand how they do it. I think the distillery could transfer in wine from distillery in bond, distill it, proof and transfer back to winery. I think you could bring in their wine, make the beverage and return it to them for canning.
  13. Output and Revenue

    Well, what are your numbers?
  14. DSP TTB application

    +1 This was the one question I could come up with no LOGIC to calculate. So, I tried to figure what would be the max I MIGHT ever want to store. I figured if there was an actual calculation and they didn't like my answer they would say so. They did come back with how many square feet of floor space was allocated for storage. Hmmm... I would assume this means nothing without knowing the ceiling height.
  15. Get your Federal Permit? How long did it take?

    Approved today, 214 days. Actual review and request for corrections took 11 work days. On January 1st most applications were reassigned to new reviewers. I got caught up in that. Previous reviewer helped me get to new, but only after I asked. I was asked for six corrections/additional info. All six were easy...add compass rose to drawing, add size/square footage of operational areas to text description, etc.
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