Corson stole my money

[Southernhighlander]

Jake Hatfield.    Are you sure it was me? If so I am very sorry. I always return calls within 48 hrs.  In fact I spend  50 to 60hrs per week on the phone and emailing.  Unlike most of my competitors I will spend as much time as you need on the phone, giving out free info, answering questions and guiding the customer toward the correct equipment for their needs.  My customers will verify that.  I get over 60 pertinent emails per day and my office gets 30 or more calls per day.    If we did not reply we would not be in business.  However my guess is your message fell through the cracks somehow, which is a rare occurrence. 

 It is always best to email because it is easier for me to keep track of everything.  In fact before we start building equipment for an order we do an email search and read all of the emails to make sure that we get things right.  Also with every quote we give out a massive reference list of customers and their contact info so that you can verify the quality of our equipment and customer service..  If you ever need anything else give me a call at 417-778-6100 or email paul@distillery-equipment.com

Thank you.

[Southernhighlander]

Jake,

 

We have sold equipment to several of Corson's customers who can vouch for us.  

[Southernhighlander]

1 hour ago, Jakehatfield said:

I appreciate your distaste with injustice and the way Corson is operating. I’m sure you will be thrilled to know  Their website and Facebook is down now. Not sure for how long. I reached out to your company before I found Corson. You took 6 weeks to return my call. By that time I had already gone in another direction. The wrong direction unfortunately. Btw you kinda hijacked my thread.  

Thank you,

I am really glad to hear that you appreciate it.   I have worked very hard to get the message out about them on this list and my posts on this thread are just a continuation of that.  I am one of the people who had posts removed that would have helped to steer you away from Corson.  I am happy you came on here and did this which is why I gave you a trophy

  I can tell you right up front and everyone that is looking for equipment should pay attention to this:

  The  most important things to do when buying equipment is to first get at as many references as possible and call all of the references and ask them every question that you can think of.  Go visit distilleries that are using the equipment. 

Next, if the company offers you a sales agreement to sign, have your attorney look at it.  If the agreement does not protect you and give you a time line with penalties for the seller, if they are late, don't sign it.  Corson's sales agreement protected them in every way, but did not protect you in any way, what so ever.   My sales agreements protect the customer as well as me and they guarantee the time lines and if i do not meet those time lines then I pay the customer penalties.  I do sales agreements for everyone that asks for one.

When I was younger I learned some things the hard way, just like you have.  I have never forgotten those lessons and never will.  My first rule of business is to do business with honesty and integrity.  My 2nd rule is to never put myself into a position where someone can screw me.

[Aux Arc]

Kinda?!!!!! Hell it's already on the runway in Cuba🤐

[Southernhighlander]

12 minutes ago, Aux Arc said:

Kinda?!!!!! Hell it's already on the runway in Cuba🤐

Aux Arc, 

🤣 On a serious note, since you are an attorney, what advice would you give concerning choosing a good equipment company to purchase from?  What questions would you ask and how would you do your due diligence?  I personally don't want anyone to be ripped off by fly by night shysters like Corson.

[Aux Arc]

Paul I wasn't sure how many people younger than our generation would understand that

[Southernhighlander]

57 minutes ago, Aux Arc said:

Paul I wasn't sure how many people younger than our generation would understand that

Yea, I hear ya.

[Aux Arc]

 

1 hour ago, Southernhighlander said:

  The  most important things to do when buying equipment is to first get at as many references as possible and call all of the references and ask them every question that you can think of.  Go visit distilleries that are using the equipment. 

Next, if the company offers you a sales agreement to sign, have your attorney look at it.  If the agreement does not protect you and give you a time line with penalties for the seller, if they are late, don't sign it.

 

Paul, I would mirror your advice.  It is right on point.  I would add, however, that you should insist on a contract with penalty provisions.  A delay on an order for opening a new facility can be financially devastating.

  Also, when you are dealing with that kind of money, a visit to the production facility, unannounced, would be well worth the cost of travel. Of course if the facility is in China, that might not be possible to go unannounced but I would still want to visit.

That advice is because of the benefit of hindsight, however.  I probably would not have thought of it had the Corson debacle not occurred.  And if you follow any of the brewery business forums, at least two equipment manufacturers have recently gone under holding hundreds of thousands of dollars in Customer deposits.

Maybe requiring bonding by the manufacturers may be the way to go, much like the commercial construction contractors must be bonded to assure the customer that the project will be completed and completed in a timely manner.  That way you could be assured that the manufacturer is not under-capitalized as the insurers that are issuing the bonds would have done much of the due diligence for you.

[Southernhighlander]

52 minutes ago, Aux Arc said:

 

 

Paul, I would mirror your advice.  It is right on point.  I would add, however, that you should insist on a contract with penalty provisions.  A delay on an order for opening a new facility can be financially devastating.

  Also, when you are dealing with that kind of money, a visit to the production facility, unannounced, would be well worth the cost of travel. Of course if the facility is in China, that might not be possible to go unannounced but I would still want to visit.

That advice is because of the benefit of hindsight, however.  I probably would not have thought of it had the Corson debacle not occurred.  And if you follow any of the brewery business forums, at least two equipment manufacturers have recently gone under holding hundreds of thousands of dollars in Customer deposits.

Maybe requiring bonding by the manufacturers may be the way to go, much like the commercial construction contractors must be bonded to assure the customer that the project will be completed and completed in a timely manner.  That way you could be assured that the manufacturer is not under-capitalized as the insurers that are issuing the bonds would have done much of the due diligence for you.

I agree with all of that.  Our sales agreements include penalties for time lines not met, however i do not know of any other distillery equipment manufacturers that do that. Not Vendome and certainly not any of the Germans, so if people fallow your device concerning penalties for timelines not met. ADE is the only option, as far as I know.  Many of Corsons's customers did visit their facility, when they had one and came away impressed, however that is excellent advice

  I give an open invitation for anyone to visit my facility during business hrs, Monday through Friday from 7:00 AM until 3:30 PM, announced or unannounced.  We normally get visitors every week.  I give a complete tour of our whole operation, which now has over 18,000 square feet of shop, office and warehouse space. 

As far as going under.  Affordable Distillery equipment has zero debt, as do all of my other businesses.  We have around $3,000,000.00 in inventory and we gross between $4,000,000.00 and $5,000,000.00 per year. That's pretty good for a business that I started a little less than 7 years ago, as an experiment to see if i could make a business fly with zero start up money, no investors, no dept and zero assets.  Not bad for a guy who dropped out of school in the 9th grade.

 We have 3 complete fab shops and 24 employees currently.  I employ the best sanitary welders and boiler makers in Ripley and Oregon County MO.  If a customer wants a financial statement for ADE, I am glad to have my CPA do that.  We have showroom distilleries where potential customers can visit to see the equipment in operation and ask all of the questions they like.  They can spend a whole day there if they like. We currently offer a free 3 day distilling workshop for customers that spend more than $10,000.00 on equipment from us.  They get to roll up their sleeves and use our equipment that has been in operation 5 to 6 days per week for almost 7 years. 

We are a Platinum Sponsor for the ADI show in Denver.  It should be a great show this year.  Are you coming?  Maybe we can have a drink together.

[Aux Arc]

Paul, I wish I was but too many irons in the fire this time of year.  I do have a turkey hunt down your way in late April.  I will try to get by to chat but will give you a call first to see if you will be around.  I have been wanting to see your operation for a while now but keep getting pulled in different directions.

[Southernhighlander]

Come on over and see us.  We have some great Turkey hunting here, especially in the Mark Twain National forest and the Irish Wilderness. 417-778-6100 or in the evenings 417-778-6908.

[Jakehatfield]

18 hours ago, Southernhighlander said:

 

[Aux Arc]

Jake Hatfield sorry I helped with that hijack.  I truly hope you find justice with those sob's.  The lawyer s letter was so full of BS.  Yes, raw material cost did go up.  42.00 per ton for stainless plus maybe another 70 per ton if it comes from China.  Should have increased your order by a few hundred.  Please go to the FBI and be persistent.  They should go after the lawyer for perpetuating the fraud.  Maybe they were being honest when they first took your order but it's obvious that they're not still being honest.

 

[Mixo]

Most definitely NOT an attorney but I've dealt with 11 BK a number of times in my line of business. Not sure if you have yet but you need to file a claim have your lawyer watch the federal PACE system for their Chapter 11 filings. You would qualify as an unsecured creditor and you, along with anybody else they screwed who files a claim, will have high standing in court. The charge with 11 is to specifically watch after unsecured creditors. 11 can be for re-org but it most commonly a liquidating event.  I'm sure they have bad secured debt but those collectors will only be able to recover fire sale value so watch for liquidation (it's coming) and maybe try to pick their bones for equipment at pennies on the dollar. This post is eye-opening. I had them bookmarked for possible equipment sourcing (ACK!). I also have about $115k out on deposits so I feel for you! BEST OF LUCK BUDDY!

[One Foot Crow]

Hi

I have a 1200lt Corsons Still , two ten plate columns and a four plate. As well as a mash tun and fermentor. I will say that it took way longer than promised to get. But they did compensate me with a reduced price and a gin basket. I have now been using for several months with no issues. In fact I can call or write and they answer my questions fairly promptly. I couldn't afford a German still and I didn't want to go Chinese as I was warned about the quality of their stainless. I found the customer service left a lot to be desired but in the end I did get everything I paid for.

[Rum]

19 hours ago, One Foot Crow said:

Hi

I have a 1200lt Corsons Still , two ten plate columns and a four plate. As well as a mash tun and fermentor. I will say that it took way longer than promised to get. But they did compensate me with a reduced price and a gin basket. I have now been using for several months with no issues. In fact I can call or write and they answer my questions fairly promptly. I couldn't afford a German still and I didn't want to go Chinese as I was warned about the quality of their stainless. I found the customer service left a lot to be desired but in the end I did get everything I paid for.

You are a lucky one. Those piss-ants sent me a dangerous still. It took a lot of work and a lot of money to get it operational. Not to mention that I had to buy another still to try and catch up with demand due to the constant lies from those pieces of shit about delivery times. I am not one to wish bad things on people normally but it would actually make me smile to see them go to jail.

[Jakehatfield]

21 hours ago, One Foot Crow said:

Hi

I have a 1200lt Corsons Still , two ten plate columns and a four plate. As well as a mash tun and fermentor. I will say that it took way longer than promised to get. But they did compensate me with a reduced price and a gin basket. I have now been using for several months with no issues. In fact I can call or write and they answer my questions fairly promptly. I couldn't afford a German still and I didn't want to go Chinese as I was warned about the quality of their stainless. I found the customer service left a lot to be desired but in the end I did get everything I paid for.

At this point for me a German still would have been light years cheaper. Not to mention it would be here and I’d be producing a product. I’ve never had an experience this bad. 

[Jakehatfield]

40 minutes ago, Jakehatfield said:

At this point for me a German still would have been light years cheaper. Not to mention it would be here and I’d be producing a product. I’ve never had an experience this bad. 

When did you order yours if you don’t mind me asking?

[Georgeous]

well, when i got in to this i was looking at Corson. i started looking in early 2017. I saw no warning flags here or anywhere i really liked the look of their equipment and they were one of the only ones i found that had agitators in their fermenters as standard equipment. It was Kris Bohn at that time from Still Austin that warned me about them and his experiences with them. So i started digging deeper  and asking alot of questions. Finally tory corson called me and wanted to secure a deal. By that time i was too leary to go with them. Thank goodness. Jake i am sorry what you are going through. i notice their site is down. hopefully you will get something out of this

[Ozman]

Just posted a thread that confirms Corsons dissolution. Sorry to hear about these clowns. So unethical. 

[LUCKY B]

Man that a Hard  Bone to chew on what part of the country are you in ? , may cost you alittle extra but look up what family Controls tha area .. you know friends of the friends .   Lawyers can steal more money than a hunderd men with masks and Guns and Government protects crooked Bussines Men .corporations have been putting it to the people for years .. thats a tough One ..

[dhdunbar]

I know this is old, but since someone popped it open again, have any of the persons who were damaged by Corson contacted the postal inspectors about mail fraud or the FBI about wire fraud?  

18 USC 1341:   Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, ...for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice or attempting so to do, places in any post office or authorized depository for mail matter, any matter or thing to be sent or delivered by the Postal Service, or deposits or causes to be deposited any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by any private or commercial interstate carrier, or takes or receives therefrom, any such matter or thing, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail or such carrier according to the direction thereon, or at the place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any such matter or thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. 

18 USC 1343:  Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

The government might be able to pile on RICO charges, since mail and wire fraud are predicate crimes, and there may have been a pattern of "racketeering" activity.  That could make Corson's principals' and associates' lives interesting if they were involved in  or conspired - yet another statute - to violate the fraud statutes.     

I know we used those statutes in contraband cases when I had gainful federal employment.  I don't see why they would not apply here.  Establishing the elements embedded in the clauses and phrases of the statute would be the job of the investigating agency.  That would not be your problem, so It's a lot cheaper than hiring an attorney to pursue the matter civilly and any adjudicated charges create a record.  I know that in one FAA Act trade practice case in which I was involved, an excluded party used the hearing  record and findings and sought  treble damages under civil RICO provisions,  to reach a settlement. 

Maybe an attorney out there can comment on why I might be wrong in suggesting this possibility.