Calculators for Distilling

[Georgeous]

2 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

Keep in mind, if you are fermenting and distilling on the grain, you need to remove the bulk volume of remaining grain from the total volume to calculate an accurate alcohol yield.

600 gallons of grain-in fermented wash, with 1200 pounds of grain, at 8.5% is not 51 gallons of absolute (100%) ethanol (600 * 8.5% = 51), because you need to net out the weight of the non-alcohol containing grain solids that are hitchhiking along.

At worst case, 1200 pounds of grain into 600 gallons yields 100 "gallons" of solids, and 500 gallons of alcohol laden liquid.  Now, this is the worst-case - we've converted a good portion of grain starch to sugar in the liquid, so that weight needs to be removed, but grain germ, pericarp/endocarp, husk, bran, protein/fiber/fat, etc - these need to be removed from the volume - they are taking up considerable space, but do not contain alcohol.

Realistically, you'll be somewhere between 43 gallons of absolute, and 51 gallons of absolute.  You can get very clever here, by estimating the non-starch component of your mash-bill and adjusting as necessary.

Just for conversation, let's split the difference - say realistically somewhere around 47 gallons of absolute as the max.

so my almost 100 gallons of 37.7% ABV is correct? Also we did not run this through our column only our whiskey helmet. We came from a 50 gallon copper moonshine still with a thumper to a 600 gallon pot still with a whiskey helmet and a 5 plate 18" column. We havent grasped the concept yet of using a column so we bypassed it for our maiden voyage on this monster. Very new to the whole dephlegmator thing. From what i been reading i probably should have but not sure how much that would have stripped out our flavors yet. Life used to be so simple. 

[Georgeous]

On 3/21/2019 at 3:56 PM, Tom Lenerz said:

If you want to improve your yield, you should collect lower than 20% abv.

Meerkat has it covered, all the alcohol you estimated is accounted for, its just that you left it in the still because you had about 500 gallons of mash at 2.5% abv, down from your 600 at 8.5%. 

 

 

This was already a very long run and just the way we were taught at distillery in virginia was to stop running on stripping run at 20%. When we stopped we were running the still at 98°C / 208°F and were getting a trickle out of the still. for you column experts if i had used the column should i have opened all 5 plates and how long would you let it go with dephlegmator? Until it can rectify no more? 

[Georgeous]

On 3/21/2019 at 4:17 PM, JailBreak said:

Couple questions:

1. How are you calculating volume? If it isn't by weight and proof you may be off by several gallons depending on several factors.

2. What kind of still are you running? What is your target ABV off the parrot? Most stills that I'm aware of recommend not running them under 1/2 volume if not more. If you have a pot still and shooting for 70% you will have to do several stripping runs to meet that half-way point. If you have a column still that can give you a decently high proof from a 8% charge, diluting the one stripping run down will be enough.\

This is the main reason some distilleries will often have 2+ stills. A larger stripping still and a smaller 'finishing' still that will accommodate the stripped volume.

1. we have 400L recieving tanks but we also weighed it. 

2. we have a 600 gallon pot still with whiskey helmet and 5 plate column. did not use the column as this is new to us coming from a moonshine still with a thumper. 

[Georgeous]

19 hours ago, kleclerc77 said:

Yes.

yep thats what i figured

[Georgeous]

19 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

Is there any reason why you wouldn’t strip more than one batch before you do a spirit run?

Also, with 5 plates available, why didn’t you run it single pass?

Also keep in mind that you likely may not be able to use 5 plates on a whiskey strip - as you’ll easily be above 160 proof - unless you add a lot of water.

thats exactly what we should have done, dont know the column yet still researching it. How many plates would you recommend starting with? Also as we come from a thumper world how long to rectify? At a certain point it can only rectify so much and the vapors will pass to the column, right? So lets say i only wanted to use 3 or 2 plates , since it feeds from the bottom up the column i guess we would have to by pass the upper two or three plates?

[Georgeous]

19 hours ago, Silk City Distillers said:

Is there any reason why you wouldn’t strip more than one batch before you do a spirit run?

Also, with 5 plates available, why didn’t you run it single pass?

Also keep in mind that you likely may not be able to use 5 plates on a whiskey strip - as you’ll easily be above 160 proof - unless you add a lot of water.

Also, had i had used the column instead of stripping run as 51 gallons out of 600 was potential 100% ethanol i guess that would have been ok to run all five plates?

[adamOVD]

On 3/20/2019 at 6:55 AM, Georgeous said:

So I used my snap 51 digital hydrometer

Maybe I don't have much room to talk, as I've asked plenty of stupid questions here, and am extremely grateful for the advice I've received. I've also been teaching myself the principles of distilling, but started very small scale and worked up, with very little overhead, or consequences in a failed batch.

However, you sure seem have some nice equipment that you've obviously spent a lot of money on. I'd recommend spending more and hiring someone to consult with to show you how to properly use it. Running a column is an entirely different beast than a pot, and your description of it may just be confusing to me  but I'm not sure you fully get it.

That being said, I find a stripping run and a spirit run with 2 plates on my much cheaper equipment is about the same as a single run on 5 plates. It will probably put you over 160P though. Also if the stripping run took a long time. A spirit run will take longer, and filling the boiler with low wines from 5 striping runs will be a multi day process. If I were you,  I'd dump 300 gallons of hot water on top of your 100 gallons of low wines to ease you heat up time, and then practice running your column with that with 2 plates. If it goes wrong just dump it back in and try again. Best of luck, dont blow up.

[Georgeous]

22 hours ago, adamOVD said:

Maybe I don't have much room to talk, as I've asked plenty of stupid questions here, and am extremely grateful for the advice I've received. I've also been teaching myself the principles of distilling, but started very small scale and worked up, with very little overhead, or consequences in a failed batch.

However, you sure seem have some nice equipment that you've obviously spent a lot of money on. I'd recommend spending more and hiring someone to consult with to show you how to properly use it. Running a column is an entirely different beast than a pot, and your description of it may just be confusing to me  but I'm not sure you fully get it.

That being said, I find a stripping run and a spirit run with 2 plates on my much cheaper equipment is about the same as a single run on 5 plates. It will probably put you over 160P though. Also if the stripping run took a long time. A spirit run will take longer, and filling the boiler with low wines from 5 striping runs will be a multi day process. If I were you,  I'd dump 300 gallons of hot water on top of your 100 gallons of low wines to ease you heat up time, and then practice running your column with that with 2 plates. If it goes wrong just dump it back in and try again. Best of luck, dont blow up.

i appreciate that Adam and most likely the avenue we will take with this batch when we redistill it. As for the brewery consultant we have been talking with a consultant distller to come out and familiarize us with the workings of our column. We got the pot distilling down fine, but need to master the column. i have 5 x 18" plates in this beast and yes on a spirit run would probably be over 160 proof. we will take this batch and add 200-300 gallons of water and start with two or three plates and see what we get. 

[captnKB]

We collect down to 20 proof 10% ABV on a stripping run. There is a good bit of useable alcohol and good flavor in those tails and to leave them in your wash after a stripping run is to throw away good alcohol.

[kleclerc77]

On 3/23/2019 at 10:44 AM, Georgeous said:

yep thats what i figured

To be honest, that isn't even the best answer, but is definitely one way to go about it. If you have the capacity to collect a kettle's worth of low wines and run that, that's what I would do. From reading your scenario, it didn't seem like that was in the cards. It's easier to make cuts with a bigger batch!

[Silk City Distillers]

A single pass run on 5 plates is likely to be over 160 proof, unless you have very inefficient plates - for your first single pass run, consider using 4 to start, and if necessary, dropping to 3.

[Georgeous]

17 hours ago, captnKB said:

We collect down to 20 proof 10% ABV on a stripping run. There is a good bit of useable alcohol and good flavor in those tails and to leave them in your wash after a stripping run is to throw away good alcohol.

well that was our idea, stripping run collect to 20%ABV with no cuts as a stripping run should be. But i didnt take in to consideration or calculate correctly what i would end up with and now it is not enough to fill my big ass still. so i will have to take my 100 gallons of low wines and charge with 200 gallons of water and redistill this time as a spirit run low and slow making cuts. Question now is how many plates to use? If i use all five on my column i will likely strip off all flavor. So will start with 2 plates and see how it goes. But here is what i am not sure. Do i turn off the three plates from the top  of column or bottom for this?

 

[Georgeous]

1 minute ago, Silk City Distillers said:

A single pass run on 5 plates is likely to be over 160 proof, unless you have very inefficient plates - for your first single pass run, consider using 4 to start, and if necessary, dropping to 3.

i was planning to do 2 plates maybe 3 but the ones i bypass should they be at top of column or at bottom? i am wrestling with the logic as vapor rises

 

[Georgeous]

so again i am coming from thumper to column in my expansion. i watched literally 20+ videos this weekend for column distillation. From home distillers to pros. i seen and read a lot of mixed thoughts like silk city wrote he used to do 45 minutes in the column before turning off the dephlegmator and going to column and thus adjusted his schedule. So i watched a real boring video but really educationally done that basically says it can only rectify so much then will pass to condenser on its own. We have 18" column with 5 plates. going foward will avoid stripping runs and use the column and adjust the plates as needed. So before i charge my still with water and my low wines, my questions:

1. how many plates to use knowing i am starting with 100 gallons of 37.7% + 200 gallons of water

2. which plates to turn off if using 2 plates, the three from the top of column or the three from the bottom?

3. How long to rectify, or just let it go?

Thank you all for your responses. i read every word and am keeping a journal of process

hopefully one day we will be the ones paying it foward to new distillers graduating to big systems

 

[Roger]

Here's a thought. Run a previously stripped batch with one plate and take it down to 134 proof, then put it away for 4 years at 120p in # 3char. Then run another batch with 2 plates, take it down to 142 and put away at 110 proof  in a #4 char. Then the next day run with 3 plates.............

Then next week run a single pass group with all the plates but only go down to 147p and put a #2 barrel barrel away at 120, then the next day run a barrel not so deep into the tails, but only use 4 plates and put that barrel away a 100p

Take notes of all the flavors you come up with, and then you decide what you like. That's how you make Craft Spirits.

[Georgeous]

37 minutes ago, Roger said:

Here's a thought. Run a previously stripped batch with one plate and take it down to 134 proof, then put it away for 4 years at 120p in # 3char. Then run another batch with 2 plates, take it down to 142 and put away at 110 proof  in a #4 char. Then the next day run with 3 plates.............

Then next week run a single pass group with all the plates but only go down to 147p and put a #2 barrel barrel away at 120, then the next day run a barrel not so deep into the tails, but only use 4 plates and put that barrel away a 100p

Take notes of all the flavors you come up with, and then you decide what you like. That's how you make Craft Spirits.

Roger, 

it funny you wrote this, it is almost exactly what we discussed this morning internally. We are  going to experiment with the different levels to see what we can do / produce. Ideally we want to distill to 135 p that is the taste profile we targeted with small system and liked the results. 

[glisade]

7 hours ago, Georgeous said:

so again i am coming from thumper to column in my expansion. i watched literally 20+ videos this weekend for column distillation. From home distillers to pros. i seen and read a lot of mixed thoughts like silk city wrote he used to do 45 minutes in the column before turning off the dephlegmator and going to column and thus adjusted his schedule. So i watched a real boring video but really educationally done that basically says it can only rectify so much then will pass to condenser on its own. We have 18" column with 5 plates. going foward will avoid stripping runs and use the column and adjust the plates as needed. So before i charge my still with water and my low wines, my questions:

1. how many plates to use knowing i am starting with 100 gallons of 37.7% + 200 gallons of water

2. which plates to turn off if using 2 plates, the three from the top of column or the three from the bottom?

3. How long to rectify, or just let it go?

Thank you all for your responses. i read every word and am keeping a journal of process

hopefully one day we will be the ones paying it foward to new distillers graduating to big systems

 

So for 1. if you're charging with 300 gallons at ~25 proof and want 135 proof off the still? With two plates your hearts should start above 170 proof according to water-ethanol equilibrium curve. One plate should give you a start of about 160 proof. I distill with a starting wash of 8% ABV and use one plate and my total hearts proof is about 130 proof.

[Georgeous]

So again let me post the only question I still have remaining when I re-distill this and I decide I only want to use one two or three plates do I turn them off from the top down or the bottom up?

[Silk City Distillers]

You'll need to try both options - it can differ based on still whether top down or bottom up works better.

Why?  It's going to depend how well the plates drain and the associated pressure drop.  You'll want to disable the plates that result in the least liquid hold up on the plate, since this will eliminate the impact from passive reflux.

In my experience, I've seen disabling the bottom plates work better, but I've also heard the opposite.

[Silk City Distillers]

What you'll need to experiment with is whether or not running a cooler reflux condenser (higher reflux ratio) and fewer plates vs warmer reflux condenser (low reflux ratio) and more plates, will work better for you.

I did see one still with poorly designed plate bypass - at high reflux ratios, the defeated plates still had a considerable amount of action, negating the bypass.

[Roger]

I havent seen mention of the defleg. Running it at different heights, if controllable, and the temp going into it as determined by the temp you set coming out of your condenser, will affect your plate operation.

 

[Georgeous]

2 hours ago, Roger said:

I havent seen mention of the defleg. Running it at different heights, if controllable, and the temp going into it as determined by the temp you set coming out of your condenser, will affect your plate operation.

 

Roger, what do you mean by running the dephlegmator at different heights? 

[Roger]

On 2 of my stills, my deflegs can be run empty or, 3" of fill, 8" of fill, or 12" of fill. All return different proofs.

 

[Georgeous]

2 minutes ago, Roger said:

On 2 of my stills, my deflegs can be run empty or, 3" of fill, 8" of fill, or 12" of fill. All return different proofs.

 

i have no idea how to do this. my dephlegmator is stainless and has an inlet and a return. 

[Roger]

I see. no prob. One less thing you have to think about. Your only issues are: Defleg or not, and inlet water temp