what exactly is original distillation

[perfection]

if a pot still is used what would constitute made from original distillation from mash 

Introducing the flavour of botanicals during (I) first pot distillation run (ii) subsequent pot distillation runs (iii) either

Would the botanicals be steeped or vapour infused?

or is the second and subsequent run in a pot still considered re-distillation?

 

and what if the flavours were introduced in a second or finishing run of a patent still  (assuming the spirit is made from a mash in a patent still) is that too considered a redstillation (rather than an original distillation)?

In a patent still, would the botanicals be steeped or vapour infused?

 

[Eud]

I'm not that experienced myself, but I find all of your posts to use terms where I have no idea what you're talking about. 

Is there a language barrier and you're coming from a language where you're translating things into english to ask these questions which is why they seem to make no sense (at least to me)?

[FijiSpirits]

1 hour ago, Eud said:

I'm not that experienced myself, but I find all of your posts to use terms where I have no idea what you're talking about. 

Is there a language barrier and you're coming from a language where you're translating things into english to ask these questions which is why they seem to make no sense (at least to me)?

I’m the same. Like the use of the term “patent still”. I actually had to look it up!  He means a continuous still apparently. 

 

I beleive its it’s because he may have little hands on experience and is coming at his project from a “book knowledge “ perspective?

[perfection]

Yes friends, I am coming from a pure theoretical background.....

Language is not  a barrier....culture …. perhaps!

I need to understand the term "original distillation from mash" in detail for my project as it appears in the US definition of GIN

My understanding: original distillation from mash could be done in continuous stills or pot stills.  When done in pot stills it would require at least two or more distillations to get the alcohol content upto a respectable purity.  Hence my query was to understand

whether the flavour of juniper and other botanicals are introduced during the fist run of pot distillation or the second (or third).  If during second distillation would it be regarded as a redistillation or original distillation

would this be done by steeping the botanicals or vapour infusing them

I hope I am clearer now

Thank you

[Foreshot]

Quote

GIN - Spirits with a main characteristic flavor derived from juniper berries produced by distillation or mixing of spirits with juniper berries and other aromatics or extracts derived from these materials and bottled at not less than 40% alcohol by volume (80 proof).

^ That's Gin that is made with a base spirit then you macerate or vapor infuse the botanicals. This how most gins are made. 

 

Quote

Distilled Gin – Gin produced by original distillation from mash with or over juniper berries and other aromatics or their extracts, essences or flavors.

^ That is more like Genever. The botanicals are mixed in with the fermentation then distilled. 

 

As for the other questions as to when to add botanicals or vapor infuse etc - different manufacturers it differently. There is no single way to make gin. 

[Roger]

Keep in mind that Gin is not made from a "mash" be it the first, second, or 20th distillation. So the question as presented is a bit inane.

if one were to add botanicals into the mash (I.e carbohydrates to be consumed by yeast) and then dump that into a still after fermentation, be it a pot or patent, my sense is that it would be folly. 

So the answer is, no.

[perfection]

Thanks FORESHOT

I think there seems to be some issue in the use of the terms base spirit and the final redistillation that incorporates the gin/juniper flavours 

One last set of questions for utter clarity.  lease just state YES or NO

 1  the US definition does accept gins that are directly pot distilled from mash over botanicals (as the EU definition does NOT  they insist on NGS compounded or redistilled (steeping or vapour infused)

2.

3 hours ago, Foreshot said:

GIN - Spirits with a main characteristic flavor derived from juniper berries produced by distillation or mixing of spirits with juniper berries and other aromatics or extracts derived from these materials and bottled at not less than 40% alcohol by volume (80 proof).

Do you mean distillation or redistillation or either in the above?

3.  Is the base spirit used Neutral Grain Spirit (NGS) when redistilling or compounding with botanicals?

4. Can original or direct distillation also refer to continuous still distillation from a mash?

5. If one does an original distillation from mash in a continuous still and then introduces the botanicals (say in a finishing continuous still run) , will this be regarded as redistillation too or is redistillation always in a pot still for flavour incorporation

6. If one makes a pot still gin and introduces the botanicals in the second or third distillation is that taken as re-distillation or original distillation ?

Thank you each one who contributed to answer these 'theoretical question'

[Foreshot]

I'm not stating I'm an expert on the fine details of what you are asking, just going off of what my interpretations of the regs are. If you're doing something that is serious you should go to someone like Dave Dunbar who can guide you through those details. Those Regulations are here: https://www.ttb.gov/spirits/bam/chapter4.pdf

1. Yes, that would be the Distilled Gin.  "DISTILLED GIN: Gin produced by original distillation from mash with or over juniper berries and other aromatics or their extracts, essences or flavors"

2. Redistillation - flavoring GNS or other spirits with botanicals. 

3. Mixed question here - if you're redistilling after maceration then it's Redistilled gin and doesn't need GNS, it can be any spirit. If you don't redistill then it's compounded gin that does require GNS. 

REDISTILLED GIN: Gin produced by redistillation of distilled spirits with or over juniper berries and other aromatics or their extracts, essences or flavors

COMPOUNDED GIN: Gin produced by mixing neutral spirits with juniper berries and other aromatics or their extracts, essences or flavors

4. The regulations do not state what type of still is required so any can be used.

5. The still type doesn't matter. If you use a pre-distilled spirit it's redistilled Gin.

6. See 5.

Again - there's way more to this than what is above. Dave can guide you through it.

[Glenlyon]

Original distillation occurred when Adam convinced Eve to eat the apple - thus discovering the joys of alcohol.