not mandatory to use neutral spirit for gin?

[perfection]

seeing the US definition for Gin, is it right to understand that

- the use of neutral spirit is not legally necessary for Gin production except for compound Gins

- the distillation can be done in ANY kind of still

Is this correct?

[bluestar]

Pretty much. Absolutely does not have to be neutral spirit. Juniper must be the dominant flavor source, so if your base spirit had much more flavor than the juniper, that might run into a problem, although how they would determine that, I am not sure, probably from the formula.

[Top Gun]

Ah ha !No I understand the key difference between the US definition and the EU definition of gin

In the EU definition, they specify neutral spirit (ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin) for producing compounded gins and distilled gin 

[jharner1]

You don't even need a formula for a gin distilled from a mash (think jenever-style). I had to fight like hell to make that case to the TTB officer that reviewed our COLA, but it's right there in the regs. Now, don't get me started on how they're dealing with COLAs for aged gins.

[bluestar]

21 hours ago, jharner1 said:

You don't even need a formula for a gin distilled from a mash (think jenever-style). I had to fight like hell to make that case to the TTB officer that reviewed our COLA, but it's right there in the regs. Now, don't get me started on how they're dealing with COLAs for aged gins.

Correct. We do a couple (our "railroad" gin and our genever).

[SteelB]

On 8/2/2019 at 2:22 PM, jharner1 said:

You don't even need a formula for a gin distilled from a mash (think jenever-style). I had to fight like hell to make that case to the TTB officer that reviewed our COLA, but it's right there in the regs. Now, don't get me started on how they're dealing with COLAs for aged gins.

it would seem it matters which agent gets your stuff, as interperataion 

[SteelB]

As i set out i wanted to make a Genever Style Gin. I was told by the TTB that what i was doing was gin not Genever. I argued and argued and they finally told me that i could put genever on the label, but it was going to be a DSS Therefore Gin could not appear on the label. So as i submitted the COLA i had the opposite problem. I was then Being told by these fine folks was that Gin needed to be on the label, and i said could you put that in writing....... so yeah it appears that interperatation is everything.

As i did the research i did read of the old genever , it was whiskey running through the botanicals, some even used a percentage of Rum. So i did a small test batch. i used corn based vodka, with wheat based vodka, and smaller percentages of whiskey, Rum, and gin. ran that through the botanicals and came up with essentially a super Gin. i then blended that with our house Gin at 20 to 1 it was pretty amazing.I now am trying to figure out if i want to even try and submit that formula. I mean as i read it. Gin is described as Spirit that has been run through botanicals of which juniper is the dominant flavor. Am i wrong?

[jharner1]

I don't think you'll be able to get away without a formula. The only exception to that requirement would be if you distilled from a mash (of grains), which is typically what an oude genever would be. We wanted to use that phrase on our label, but of course we couldn't, even though the oude refers to a style, and not any indication of age.

You should be able to get formula approval, and COLA, as a gin for what you describe, since you're essentially making two gins and combining them. It's not too far off from a jonge genever style.