Apple Brandy Clarification

[lswanson1]

I am looking to make apple brandy the traditional way by cutting with water however what would it be classified as if I cut it with cider instead? I know its depending up on the end resultant proof but for arguments sake lets say I cut it to 80 proof, what would it be classified as? 60 proof? 40 proof? I believe the 40 proof one would be considered a desert wine am I correct? Its kind of hard, as a newcomer, to determine whether an idea like that would be consider a liquor, an imitation...maybe even apple jack? I dont know so I hope someone here has experience enough to distinguish between these with 100% certainty. Thanks.

[Nicholas Cowles]

I am looking to make apple brandy the traditional way by cutting with water however what would it be classified as if I cut it with cider instead? I know its depending up on the end resultant proof but for arguments sake lets say I cut it to 80 proof, what would it be classified as? 60 proof? 40 proof? I believe the 40 proof one would be considered a desert wine am I correct? Its kind of hard, as a newcomer, to determine whether an idea like that would be consider a liquor, an imitation...maybe even apple jack? I dont know so I hope someone here has experience enough to distinguish between these with 100% certainty. Thanks.

Almost all the French Calvados distilleries make a product they call "Pommeau". Its usually made with 1 year old apple brandy that has aged in oak, mixed with sweet cider.. 2/3 cider and 1/3 barrel strength (120 to 140 proof) brandy.. then aged back in oak for 2 to 3 years. the percentage is 17% or 18% like porto or sherry.. The sweet fruitiness of the cider is preserved and then there is a wonderful vanilla, caramel, smokey flavor from the wood.. I don't think you can call it Pommeau unless it's made in the Calvados area of France.. Nick

[Charles@AEppelTreow]

I made an apple dessert wine with the fanciful name 'pommeaux'. White Oak Cider made one simply called 'pommeau'. 'Pommeau' isn't in the list of recognized designations of class and type - so it can't stand alone on the bottle. The fine print says 'apple dessert wine'.

I had no trouble getting my label approved, but "pommeau d'normandie" now has it's own AOC, and I've heard of other cidermakers having trouble with label approvals. I don't know the details - I just hear some stories. This falls in line with Ralph's issues with US whiskeys going to the UK, and the scare about an absinthe AOC. Is there a treaty mechanism to automatically exclude US labeling whenever the EU approves a new Appellation? I can't find one - I can only find explicit lists, periodically renegiotiated. Pommeau is not on that list - but I still hear stories. Treaty, or overeager regulator? I don't know.

In any case, Lukas, I think you need to sit down with the CFR. Look at the Beverage Labeling Manual. Call the folks at the ALFD (Labeling and Formuation Division). At 80 proof, you need to watch the dissolved solids level. Under that, it's not brandy - but that doesn't mean that you can't make it - just that you have to be careful about what you call it. Liqueurs have (I think) a _lower_ limit on the dissolved solids. 'Dessert wine' is between 14-21%abv (21-24% in special cases) but is the product of a bonded winery - not a DSP.

Lots of things can be made - specialty spirit drinks can be whatever you can get a formula and an honest description of class and type and label approved for.

[Charles@AEppelTreow]

Oh - and 'applejack' is already on the 'known' list in the beverage manual. It's either a synonym for apple brandy, or in the case of 'blended applejack', an apple brandy, grain spirit blend.

That doesn't match the colloquial meaning of 'fermented cider concentrated by fractional crystallization' - but that meaning of 'jacking' may be regional.

[Collin]

If you bring it down to a lower percentage of alcohol you could consider it an apple liqueur. Applejack, I believe, is an aged apple brandy, no juice added. So, if you added the cider it wouldn't be considered applejack anymore.