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Processes that mimic aging/distilling


Hughes

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I greatly appreciate your clarifications, especially being very green and learning all about the industry myself. They are detailed and helpful.

I'd also like to clarify, and echo what Hewlette has pointed out. That is that he did not write the article. I am in no way, shape or form affiliated with the newspaper that wrote the story nor Terressentia. I was simply pointing to a story that ran in a local news outlet. Charleston and the Lowcountry region of South Carolina have a deep and celebrated history. That extends to the food and beverage industry. We take great pride as local citizens when another citizen's business succeeds. You can attribute the enthusiastic writing in the article to that pride and excitement, especially given our collective current economic situation. The Firefly Distillery, which is also considered local to Charleston, was and continues to be celebrated and praised in our local news as well.

My point is this: I posted this as someone who is new to the industry, asking what the veterans thought of it because I did not have the base of knowledge to form an opinion of it initially. I did so without Hewlette's knowledge, as I do not know him. Again, I greatly appreciate the feedback from everyone. Thanks to this discussion I have formed my own opinions and have my own answers to my initial questions.

That being said, I think Hewlette caters to a very different market than the distillers here typically seek to enter. We have some extraordinary, award winning chefs who call Charleston home. As mentioned in the article, local restaurants which are owned by some of these same chefs are adopting these spirits as their "house" brands of liquor. They are branding an entire line of spirits specifically to that restaurant. While this is not new, it is likely appealing to these chefs to have a special brand of spirits in their restaurants. These spirits will likely take up residence in the rail/well, where the average customer will enjoy what is said to be a tasty spirit. While he may have to compete with Diageo in your average franchise restaurant, these guys are at the top of their game and a private label liquor is worth any extra cost to them. This appears to be a relatively accessible (quick, relatively painless) way to get a family/business/personal name on a bottle for those who do not have extensive knowledge of distilling or the spirits industry. If that's what they want, then I'd say he probably doesn't have to beat Diageo on price. His website also mentions other avenues of customers that they expect to cater to, restaurants being the one mentioned in the article. That's just my 2 cents.

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Denver, where in the world do you get the idea that bulk spirits are finished products? Have you tasted any? I've tasted GNS, CNS, rum, and bourbon; all from major sellers of bulk spirits. None were suitable for consumption without some type of finishing. How is 190 proof neutral, fresh off the still from a bulk supplier, a finished product? They are not finished products. Not by any stretch.

And again, here you are telling someone with a successful liquor manufacturing business that they don't know what they're doing, cannot possibly compete with Diageo (wtf?), and their process (which you don't have technical details of and cannot possibly analyze) is bullshit. Does that about cover it?

Did you even read their website? Did you read the article that started this? They appear to be doing exactly what they set out to do. Without much fanfare I might add.

And where is the sales pitch? In the small regional newspaper article? In the company's short, to the point response to other posters' misconceptions? I don't see it. I didn't get a sales call; I don't feel hornswaggled by some fast talking, hocus pocus pushing con men. I saw no post offering products for sale. I don't think you are helping anyone, regardless of experience, by your posts in this thread. I think you have really missed the mark on this one.

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I didn't read Denver as saying bulk spirits are finished goods, but that bulk spirits can be finished goods. Certainly they can be and usually are.

Angostura still owns LDI unless something has changed that slipped my attention, but Diageo does a lot of business with them. Where the bulk spirits came from is entirely beside the point.

It's not necessarily inefficient to buy, bottle, and market bulk spirits, but that's generally because of value-added in marketing, not necessarily in product, although look at products like Alize and Hpnotiq. Not my cup of tea nor probably yours, but very successful and profitable products built from bulk ingredients. Say what you will about them, you can't fairly characterize their production process as inefficient. There are certainly many successful distilled spirits producers who are not distillers.

Also, to the youngesters, even if something like this works (on some level), is that what you got into this to produce? Frankenspirits?

As for this or any other company selling accelerated aging, prove it. Your words mean nothing. Show up at the next ADI Convention, WHISKY Live, or WhiskyFest. Submit to testing by BTI. Until you do and can support your claims with solid, independent evaluations, please shut the **** up.

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Let's mellow out a bit here, and keep the discussion civil.

I agree with Chuck, in that I want to see some hard scientific facts about forced aging and maturing. (and there is a difference between the two.)

I have always been fascinated by this in both clear/un-aged spirits where filtration, sound, oxygen, etc. cause change; and in barrel aged products where you have the added effects of wood, toast/char level, time, temp. (steady state vs cycling, and high vs. low), barrel volume, etc.

One day I hope to do some solid research on this, as well as wood types, spirit abv., etc.

In my new place I am going to have temperature and humidity controlled storage/maturation in a series of underground bunkers/rooms. I can probably do a lot of experimentation one day (after I can afford to) because it will be so well insulated, and have the ability to have each area at different climate settings. I look forward to being able to show scientifically what is happening in differing scenarios.

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And again, here you are telling someone with a successful liquor manufacturing business that they don't know what they're doing, cannot possibly compete with Diageo (wtf?), and their process (which you don't have technical details of and cannot possibly analyze) is bullshit. Does that about cover it?

For heaven's sake. Can we call a truce here? You and I are having two entirely different conversations. I'm 100% behind his 'successful liquor manufacturing business'. I'm 100% behind using bulk spirits, even without a still. I'm happy for his company, and I'm happy for the economic contribution he's made to his region.

Cool? Great. I'm going to go bottle some liqueur now. Hope you've got stellar weather in Hawaii today.

Cheers.

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I'm having trouble understanding what's so exciting about this post. So what if a company is catalyzing specific reactions to speed up the "aging" process? That's nothing new, and I can't imagine how it would be controversial that they might produce a product that could do well in a taste test. Same goes for someone that starts with pure ethanol and adds a nice blend of artificial flavors and extracts. There are a finite number of chemical components in a beverage alcohol, and no reason someone couldn't reproduce it artificially with good (or better) results.

I think what's more surprising to me is that the aging process is such a mystery to so many accomplished distillers. There are plenty of detailed technical publications that describe in explicit detail the chemical reactions that take place during maturation. It seems the above company is simply using an ultrasonic process to speed up some of the oxidative reactions. That's not much different than distilleries using a heated storage room, or using smaller barrels for increased surface area, or using a catalytic metal plate (as I believe was suggested by an article from Michigan State). The same applies to simply removing undesired components. How many distilleries are using charcoal filtration?

What I see is a company foregoing tradition for technology and ingenuity, nothing else. However, I don't see anything revolutionary about their process that will make much difference in the industry.

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