Building my First RIMS System

[Josh]

Hi there,

New ADI member and first time poster. I am planning out a purchase list for my first RIMS system and wanted to bounce my efforts off the community here to see if I'm on the right track. I currently have a 26 gallon column distillation spirits still that I plan to use during my proof of concept phase and want to invest in the mashing aspect of the process to mimic a large scale, commercial quality distillery design. I'm targeting around 75 gallons as my mashing volume size initially, which should effectively utilize my still's volume capability once a beer stripping run is performed. For the mashing/fermenting process, I found this site and like the price points and the items available:

http://conical-fermenter.com/

My plan is to buy:

-75 gallon Mash Tun

-RIMS Module

-Sparge Arm

-75 gallon HLT

-80 gallon conical fermenter

-2 pumps (http://morebeer.com/view_product/17319/103556/March_Pump_-_With_High_Temp_Stainless_Steel_Housing?a_aid=theelectricbrewery)

-Control Panel (http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel)

-Oxygen stone? (not yet determined)

-Miscellaneous parts (temperature nodes, surgical tubing, quick release hose ends, etc)

Does this sounds like a comphrensive parts list for such an endeavor?

Also, what are the the opinions on heating an HLT tank of this size - electric or direct fire/flame? If feedback suggests direct flame, I may find a simplier and less expensive control panel for the RIMS system.

Any help or sharing of personal experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

Josh

[Panoscape]

Question, are you distilling "on grain" or are you keeping your wash gristless? From the look at your list, it looks like it's a clean, gristless wash. If clean, where are you getting rid of your grist, the mash (like beer) or the fermenter? These options will vary your parts list. BTW, if your getting a HLT, why not get one with a coil and run it as a HERMS? It's more cost effective and eco friendly.

Regarding heating options, you have direct electric elements, indirect elements in oil jacketed vessels, water/steam jacketed vessels and flame. I think you'll be hard pressed to get a flame passed your fire marshal though. Most commercial distilleries use boilers that send heated steam or water to their jacketed mash tuns and stills.

If it was me, I'd make my own mash tun out of a large cooler and use a plastic drum for my fermenter and make my washes to be about 18 gallons for a 26 gallon still. This would save my money for the full production equipment and also save on proofing ingredient costs but still give me enough spirits to validate a recipe.

[Josh]

Hi Panoscape,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. My intention was for the wash to be gristless. I visualized the process as extracting the fluid from the mash tun using the false bottom and transferring it into the conical fermenter without the grist. The grist would then be properly disposed of afterwards. I've looked at the herms system as well, but it seems like distillation systems that I've read/observed online are primarily using RIMS, so didn't know if there was a specific reason for that appeared preference. I would enjoy a jacketed setup, but it's just not a reality for me right now without a proven product and branding combination (and being a new to the industry). I thank you for your observation regarding the fumes and fire marshall test, wasn't thinking about that aspect of the process. I spoke to the folks who produce the tanks I listed above and they have the ability to create a heating unit port in the HLT for me, so I think I will probably go that route. In terms of the size of the tanks, my logic was that if I create a wash of about 60 gallons, then strip it, I would have about 20 gallons of low wines that I could run in the spirits run. That capacity would allow me to capture some feints as well as learn the heads and tails cuts. I was also thinking that casking would be a little more practical if I could run batches at approximately 10 gallons end product volume, perhaps combining them between 10, 20 and 30 gallon barrels. Lastly if, I produce grape distilled vodka, I think these tanks could get me off the ground from a business perspective. Clearly, I would have some capacity issues, but my thoughts was that this setup could get into a position where I could test market a product and potentially supply some low volume retailers to create cash flow to re-invest into the operation and attract potential investors. Anyway, I appreciate your help; let me know if you think this is way off base here. Thank you again for your input.

[bradocaster]

HERMS? RIMS?

Brad

[Panoscape]

@ bradocaster, It's two different processes of recirculating infusion mashing, it comes from the beer industry. you can read about it here:

http://www.beersmith...stems-for-beer/

@ Josh, I don't know too many distillers using either system, they mostly mash and dump everything into the fermenter and distill on grain with an agitator. But, seeing you most likely have an internal element in your 26 gallon still, I can understand your wish to distill off grain. You might try both types of fermentation, on grain and off, to see what flavor profiles each give your end distillate. If you can't detect a change in taste then pulling the grist out before fermentation is not needed. This will save you a ton of money in equipment costs. This is another reason to do small batches, so tests like this don't cost too much. You can also purchase small, one gallon barrels for getting "ballpark" aging flavors of bigger barrels, or go the toasted oak stick route. My advice is to take inexpensive baby steps to discover the flavor profiles you like and then scale up.

[Josh]

Hi Panoscape,

Thanks for your follow up. From the perspective of grain on vs. grain off, how would the equipment list change? I envision that I would still need to use the HLT and mash tun to mash the wort, and then move it into a fermentation tank to ferment before distilling, or is the idea that I could ferment directly in the mash tun or the still after mashing and save money on the conical fermenter? Regardless, I think that I am limited to the off grain distilling process because I am using an electrically heated still at this point in time. I could strain the wash prior to going into the still if that opens new alternatives. Maybe the better and easier question is: how do other people handle the mashing and fermenting process from an equipment standpoint, regardless of size? Lastly, what is the intention of the agitator - my guess from the name is that it shakes or churns the grains during fermentation to ensure full carbohydrate extraction or consistency in the fermentation.

Thanks again for your help; I really appreciate it.

[Panoscape]

Personally, I'd be more concerned with finding the process that produces the flavors I want instead of what everyone else is doing. If on grain fermentation and then racking the clear wash into the still produce the flavor your after, go for it. If mashing and clearing grist before fermentation yield the flavors your after, then use that. The thing is to try everything and see what you like on a small scale with minimal cost. Once you have your method down, scale it up.

If your going with on grain ferment and racking wash into the still then all you need is a HLT (which could be your still), an insulated vessel and fermentation vessel (which could be one in the same).

The agitator is in the jacketed still, it's used to keep the grain from settling and helps keep the wash evenly heated.

Best of luck and happy distilling.

[gabericharde]

Just wanted to say that I'm pretty happy to see a thread like this rolling and discussing equipment at this scale. Josh, I have had my eye on http://conical-fermenter.com/ for several months now and I would love to hear more about your experiences working with their staff and their equipment as time goes on. Please keep us posted! If you don't mind me asking, what's the story behind your 26 gallon column still? Is it by Hillbilly, by somebody else, or did you make it yourself?

[Josh]

Hi gabericharde,

Yes, the still is the 26 gallon column still from hillbilly stills. After looking around the net for some time, I found their craftsmanship appealing.

Here is the system that I bought:

http://www.hillbillystills.com/Turn_Key_Moonshine_Still_Kit_p/hbtk.htm

I recently spoke with Mike at hillbilly stills about obtaining a beer stripping still as well, anywhere from 50 to 100 gallons and he mentioned that something was in the works.

In terms of the conical-fermenter folks, I've been chatting with them a little this week to refine my order to what I really need. I think that I might scale down the initial setup to approximately 40 gallons, which would allow me to get the higher quality tanks with sight glasses rather than the bare bones 80 gallon tanks and will accommodate the heating capacity of an electric system. It also makes logical sense as panoscape pointed out in terms of experimental runs. In terms of the control panel, I was thinking that since it had three control units, I could set it up to run the HLT, mash tun and still to all run from it. I will keep you posted on the progress that I make here. Cheers.