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I am trying to finalize my still and misc equipment provider and was wondering what people think about these suppliers

Kothe

Muller

Carl

Bavarian

Thanks !

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you forgot to check out:

hillbilly stills

hoga spain.

Ibiaran portugal

artisan still design

Hammerhead stills.

and obviosly Vendom copper and brass works

you do realize that "because it costs more" doesn't mean it is better. Most of the winners of the awards of this years ADI awards were distilled using Hoga equipment.

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Yes, I realize price does not necessarily equate to quality. I have check out several of the ones you mentioned both talking to the company and looking at the equipment installed at a distillery and I actually own a still from one of the ones you listed but I am leaning towards one of the ones I have listed for my final selection.

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If you get a still from Vendome, Hoga or Iberia, I am a USA consultant that specializes in instruction and sensory perception training for several still manufacturers.

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Carl is an amazing company and family. Bear in mind I am nothing more than an owner, and receive no "consulting fees" as a result of my endorsement. And Carl stills have won plenty of national and international awards. We make a few cases each year, that we sell in a few states.

Can't comment on the others. I don't own any of them, nor use them daily.

Don

Dry Fly

Daily Distiller

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Sherman, you mentioned one that I was not aware of: Hammerhead Stills. I Gooooogled them and came up blank. Do you have any info on them?

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I am sorry. My mind plays tricks on me when it comes to names. The supplier is clawhammer stills.

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How coincidental, i just got off the phone with Don O'Connor, Ph.D. of St. Patrick's of Texas, who rudely spoke to me or shall I say preached and then hung up with a rude 'Have a Nice Day". I'm trying to outfit my plant and going through the Local County occupancy permit proceedure for the new site. The County Building Dept asked me for OSHA or UL specs on the stainless tanks I'll be installing to determne the fire hazard properties. I emailed St Patricks asking for any info on these specs and received a terse reply (Actual reply)

"we do not such specifications. in short, all the materials on tank and valves .... are fine with high alcohol"

My next thought was to find out where I could get these specs and called him. His responce to my phone question was "we sell to 100's of distillers who use these tanks for alcohol and they do just fine" As I attempted to explain why I needed the info and if there was someone I could call at Letina, he rudely interrupted me and said" we don't have this and will never have this, have a nice day" and hung up the phone.

I thought others should be aware of such customer treatment. In all my years of doing business (40 +) I have never experienced this type of rude treatment. Need less to say "Dr" Oconner of St Patricks of Texas will never see a dime of my money. He just lost the sale of 6 tanks, a filler , labeling equipment and much more. It also indicates to me the type of service one can expect from St Patricks of Texas after the sale etc. good Luck Doc!!!

Any recommendations are appreciated

Dick G

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Carl is an amazing company and family.

Seconded. Can say the same about the Sherman family at Vendome.

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How coincidental, i just got off the phone with Don O'Connor, Ph.D. of St. Patrick's of Texas, who rudely spoke to me or shall I say preached and then hung up with a rude 'Have a Nice Day". I'm trying to outfit my plant and going through the Local County occupancy permit proceedure for the new site. The County Building Dept asked me for OSHA or UL specs on the stainless tanks I'll be installing to determne the fire hazard properties. I emailed St Patricks asking for any info on these specs and received a terse reply (Actual reply)

In no way making excuses for St. Pat's, but you should know that County depts. are often clueless, and are asking for stuff purely CYA. I don't even understand how an OSHA rating would be relevant (hurting your back lifting it?). UL vaguely, for some type of fire rating? Unclear. And the tanks are stainless, they themselves have no fire hazard properties. What it sounds like they are trying to determine is if they qualify as safe storage containers for flammable materials. That might be the ratings they are discussing. Generally, the answer is no. If you are being asked questions by the County about fire hazard, make sure they or you have a fire protection engineer with distillery knowledge or experience. The fire rating of the building relates to occupancy and therefore to NFPA requirements specific for beverage alcohol. The mitigation of the fire hazard for storage of beverage alcohol is usually other than container protection. But they have the final say, and they can require anything. I have heard of some that were required to store spirit ethanol in flammable safety cabinets.

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How coincidental, i just got off the phone with Don O'Connor, Ph.D. of St. Patrick's of Texas, who rudely spoke to me or shall I say preached and then hung up with a rude 'Have a Nice Day". I'm trying to outfit my plant and going through the Local County occupancy permit proceedure for the new site. The County Building Dept asked me for OSHA or UL specs on the stainless tanks I'll be installing to determne the fire hazard properties. I emailed St Patricks asking for any info on these specs and received a terse reply (Actual reply)

"we do not such specifications. in short, all the materials on tank and valves .... are fine with high alcohol"

this is a very difficult thing you're asking, its like the folks that demand ASME certification on a still. no such thing exists, as it is outside of the purview of ASME

that being said, while I cannot provide UL or OHSA compliancy, all our equipment is certified Food safe under FDA regulations and import inspections. I can provide the FDA registration number of the factory upon request.

Steve

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If certification is necessary, you could also try contacting one of the certification agencies and inquiring about field certification of your installation. It is a way to meet your regional requirements if your equipment is not factory certified.

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What size tanks are you using? Above a certain size the fire marshalls probably want a UL-142 rated tank or similar. If I remember correctly this is for single wall (you must have some other containment for 150% of the overall volume of the tank), there is also a double wall UL tank but I can't remember the certification number off hand. I think this is for any storage tank above 750 gallons though. If you are below this, it might be that they are trying to determine if this falls under an approve fire safety container that would double your allowable storage under NFPA 30 or IFC 2703.1. As to this, pretty sure Letina tanks are not going to count as exhausted enclosure or anything of that sort. Sounds like a painful problem you are having. I would try to clarify why they need this information. If you are going to be under your MAQ the only thing I can really imagine them needing then is some form of containment, which is a relatively cheap problem. As to OSHA, there is some sort of exemption for tanks in distilleries I remember reading on this site somewhere, but can't seem to find it right now. Check CFR 19.

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And as to St. Pats, just search the name on Probrewer and you will find plenty of negative feedback, I believe 3 really long threads of people saying you should never do business with them. You already buy the Letina tanks from them? They are not the only dealer in the states...

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Gwkent sells Latina also. no affiliations. They are just good people.

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I have experience with Carl as far as supplying chillers for their set-ups, but the users seem happy with them and I find them very knowlegeable and cordial.

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And as to St. Pats, just search the name on Probrewer and you will find plenty of negative feedback, I believe 3 really long threads of people saying you should never do business with them. You already buy the Letina tanks from them? They are not the only dealer in the states...

It was second hand, but I was at a meeting with another manufacturer who shared similar treatment with St. Pats being sworn at over the phone on an order inquiry, and then receiving an email that their order was cancelled. I struck them from my potential vendor list that day.

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And as to St. Pats, just search the name on Probrewer and you will find plenty of negative feedback, I believe 3 really long threads of people saying you should never do business with them. You already buy the Letina tanks from them? They are not the only dealer in the states...

A search on St. Pats at Probrewer has zero results. However, it you search Letina you'll find a couple of the threads Jeff referred to.

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Thanks all. All responces have been helpful. The Specs the county people are looking for are if the tanks can contain a fire for some period of time. Their code permits un protected storage of upto 2.3 gallons of GNS. Anything above this requires either storage tanks that are rated for a level of retention of a fire hazard. They have no experience with distilleries or Liqueur production and were trying to be helpful suggesting this as a possibility. My minimum storage quantity is around 720 gallons. I will be stiring 55 gal drums of 190 prrof GNS for use in my liqueurs mixes. The product is then to be stored and aged in160 gal stainless tanks until I bottle. If the drums and tanks are not capable of with holding a fire from spreading for a couple hours, then I'll have to either build fire proof rooms or enclose enclose them hazardous materials cabinets. Neither is a good solution

Thanks also for the feedack on other folks being having similar bad experiences with St Pats. How does the guy stay in business. Thanks for referneces to othe suppliers for Letina - Any references to other sources of tanks is appreciated. I'm not wedded to Letina.. I just want good quality reasonably priced tanks. Used are ok too.

Dick

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this is a very difficult thing you're asking, its like the folks that demand ASME certification on a still. no such thing exists, as it is outside of the purview of ASME

that being said, while I cannot provide UL or OHSA compliancy, all our equipment is certified Food safe under FDA regulations and import inspections. I can provide the FDA registration number of the factory upon request.

Steve

Steve,

Please allow me to suggest that you are in error on your ASME comment. Distillation equipment, even those that are vented to atmosphere are considered pressure vessels by the ASME code. It is standard in all industries that use Distillation equipment (Pharma, Petro-chem, etc) to secure ASME certification for all distillation equipment. The manufacturer often inserts a CYA that pressure relief valves are to be specified and installed by the client.

All that being said, any distillation unit in Beverage Alcohol (even those vent to atmo) should have a MAWP of 15-25 PSI at 302F.

For those of you reading these posts and looking to secure equipment (specifically distillation equipment), an ASME rating is a level of security that you can place on the manufacture of your equipment. Manufacturers unwilling or unable to provide ASME rated equipment should be at the bottom of your procurement priority list (ASME ratings for a shop are expensive to secure and maintain and some smaller shops just can't afford to participate, which is fine). You have too many things to be worrying about.....DSP license, bond, marketing, funding, etc, to be worrying if your equipment has a flaw that ASME practices would have found during manufacture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASME_Boiler_and_Pressure_Vessel_Code_(BPVC)

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Dick, I got similar treatment from St. Pat's years ago. I won't quote words here. But to be fair they do have thigs I desire and I do keep them in mind. Often I do make purchase on priceing. Also with G.W. Kent. It's all about what you can put up with.

Cheers,

Bob

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I did spend some time looking at Chinese made equipment from a company called HGM. I was expecting it to be very inexpensive and figured I could visit the factory while I was over there on other business, but the quote I got from them was not that much a difference than as buying from a German company and the cost of the fermentation tanks and mixing tanks was way to much (ex 1100 liter jacketed tank was $29450).

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I did spend some time looking at Chinese made equipment from a company called HGM. I was expecting it to be very inexpensive and figured I could visit the factory while I was over there on other business, but the quote I got from them was not that much a difference than as buying from a German company and the cost of the fermentation tanks and mixing tanks was way to much (ex 1100 liter jacketed tank was $29450).

drop me a line, I can do better. and if you want to visit the factory you can do as well.

Steve

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Steve,

Please allow me to suggest that you are in error on your ASME comment. Distillation equipment, even those that are vented to atmosphere are considered pressure vessels by the ASME code. It is standard in all industries that use Distillation equipment (Pharma, Petro-chem, etc) to secure ASME certification for all distillation equipment. The manufacturer often inserts a CYA that pressure relief valves are to be specified and installed by the client.

All that being said, any distillation unit in Beverage Alcohol (even those vent to atmo) should have a MAWP of 15-25 PSI at 302F.

For those of you reading these posts and looking to secure equipment (specifically distillation equipment), an ASME rating is a level of security that you can place on the manufacture of your equipment. Manufacturers unwilling or unable to provide ASME rated equipment should be at the bottom of your procurement priority list (ASME ratings for a shop are expensive to secure and maintain and some smaller shops just can't afford to participate, which is fine). You have too many things to be worrying about.....DSP license, bond, marketing, funding, etc, to be worrying if your equipment has a flaw that ASME practices would have found during manufacture.

http://en.wikipedia....ssel_Code_(BPVC)

Speaking as someone who has worked for a company that made ASME vessels...I was walking by a hydro-test when a heat exchanger burst and I am SURE you wouldn't want that to happen in your shop!

(It was kinda like the shell shock you hear about- people were staggering around for a bit!)

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Speaking as someone who has worked for a company that made ASME vessels...I was walking by a hydro-test when a heat exchanger burst and I am SURE you wouldn't want that to happen in your shop!

(It was kinda like the shell shock you hear about- people were staggering around for a bit!)

That is my point entirely. I have said it before in this forum, and had an excellent discussion with Bill Owens, regarding the need for the industry to elevate itself to a level that is commensurate with the process. Distilling ethanol to reactive levels associated with fuel, yet saying its no big deal to deny safe practices....because grandpappy did it this way, is setting up this industry to fail.

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