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What is everyone using for proofing?


LockHouse

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Don, I thought it was .15 ABV, or .3 proof. So you should be able to go to 79.7 proof without being out of compliance. Isn't that right?

On one of our audits we were held to .15 proof. THE BAM reads .15% abv, but I think the explanation was that is .15ABv is the number and you have 40% abv stated, then you have a variance of 40 X.0015 or down to 39.94 proof or 79.88 proof. This is how our agent and the District guy applied the law. We all know this is how it works some times.

BTW, I did get into a prolonged discussion about 3 years ago with the TTB all the way up to the top levels. The gauging manual says it is acceptable to use a thermometer accurate to .25 to 1.0 degrees and a hydrometer at .2 proof graduation. The use of a thermometer accurate to only 1.0 degrees will never allow you to be in compliance to .15 or .3 proof for that matter.

DGP

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  • 4 years later...

Does anyone have a recommendation for a thermometer in the 40 - 100 degree range with a 1/4 degree subdivision as described in Section 30.22 of the gauging manual?  I have a glass thermometer, but the range is wide, so it makes it difficult for accurate reading.  Any good digital models anyone can recommend?  I have a local lab that I'll use to do the calibration.

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Only the approved TTB hydrometers 

I may have a snap 50 but remember thats not TTB approved.

The snap 50 is so far better than than the hydrometers. I bet Anton Paar does not get it approved because no one would buy there $35,000 desk top model.

The snap 50 Is the best Darn thing I ever bought. It is a massive time saver. The snap 40 is nice but the extra decimal is so super nice.

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Regarding digital thermometers, we use an Omega HH376 for final proofing.  It's a little on the pricey side, but a nice unit, although the logging is an overkill feature.  We also a less expensive Oakton Temp 6 for day-to-day gauging (it's a little bit more rugged, but slightly lower accuracy).  However, both have gross offset calibration, and we have correction tables that have the correction factors for each tenth. Neither meter has a correction greater than 0.1F anywhere in the range, and the corrections are well outside the typical temperatures we deal with, which is nice.

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  • 1 year later...

I use both certified hydrometers and we have a Rudolph Research densitometer. Both have rewarding qualities. The densitometer has a proofing calculator which is very helpful, our distillery management software has one as well. We leased our densitometer so it didn't tie up a lot of capital. I do think it is worth the expense. 

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The Snap type hydrometers can not read anywhere near the accuracy that is required by the TTB. You can do this with the approved certified calibrated hydrometers, but it is a very slow tedious process. Also the hydrometers require very high accuracy thermometers, which are often far more expensive than the hydrometers. While it is true that most won't learn the process well enough, or take the time to execute it well enough, to do even as well as a Snap 40, that does not mean you will be getting a good enough reading to pass a TTB audit using even a Snap 50. That being said, many small distillers of have a set of approved hydrometers to point at, but do the measurements with something like a Snap 50, and are essentially rolling the dice, hoping they never get audited. If you end up using one of the approved electronic densitometers, you will eventually appreciate what they can do, and why something like a Snap 50 is not up to the job. The handhelds can not control, measure, or stabilize the temperature well enough. To calibrate them, you can't easily dry out the U-tube enough for dry air measurement. And while the readouts might be to 0.01 proof, they are only accurate to 0.2 proof. Most recently, we got ahold of a lightly used Mettler Toledo DM45, which is approved. It is a slightly older model (Mettler just replaced it this past year, but the new model is not yet approved). Sure, it takes a bit longer to do the measurement than with a handheld, but you can get accuracy to meet TTB requirements, which is not possible with the handhelds. Even an inexperienced operator should be able to get 0.05 proof accuracy with it.

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On 1/3/2018 at 6:55 AM, Dehner Distillery said:

Only the approved TTB hydrometers 

I may have a snap 50 but remember thats not TTB approved.

The snap 50 is so far better than than the hydrometers. I bet Anton Paar does not get it approved because no one would buy there $35,000 desk top model.

The snap 50 Is the best Darn thing I ever bought. It is a massive time saver. The snap 40 is nice but the extra decimal is so super nice.

While it shows a full extra decimal (0.01 %abv), it is not 10x more accurate than the Snap 40. It is only about twice the accuracy at 0.1 %abv. The main advantage of showing you the higher precision digit is so you can see the level of instability or reproducibility. So, they could not get it approved even if they wanted to. One should not confuse resolution with accuracy. Anton Paar does a good job of describing their instruments specifications with regards to this.

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On 6/6/2013 at 12:07 PM, dgpoff said:

On one of our audits we were held to .15 proof. THE BAM reads .15% abv, but I think the explanation was that is .15ABv is the number and you have 40% abv stated, then you have a variance of 40 X.0015 or down to 39.94 proof or 79.88 proof. This is how our agent and the District guy applied the law. We all know this is how it works some times.

BTW, I did get into a prolonged discussion about 3 years ago with the TTB all the way up to the top levels. The gauging manual says it is acceptable to use a thermometer accurate to .25 to 1.0 degrees and a hydrometer at .2 proof graduation. The use of a thermometer accurate to only 1.0 degrees will never allow you to be in compliance to .15 or .3 proof for that matter.

DGP

You can be measured by the TTB to be in the range of stated proof from +0.00% to -0.15% abv, but they will make that measurement with 0.01% accuracy, so you better know you are in that range with 0.01% accuracy, which is tough to do with gauging that is only 0.2% accurate, for example. Keep in mind, they INTEND for you to measure to be at proof or just under on the order of 0.05% or better before bottling, with the expectation that bottling will drop the proof slightly by differential evaporation of ethanol during the transfer. This is the real reason why you can be as low at 0.15% abv. It is NOT meant to say you don't have to measure any more accurately than that!

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I just ordered a Digi-Sense® Extreme-Accuracy Digital Thermometer with Calibration from Cole-Parmer. Seems like a pretty good deal for 100$. My proofing hasn't been as close as I'd like it to be. Hoping a more accurate thermometer will solve things.

 

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