Jump to content

Complete set up


Tesstony

Recommended Posts

I am trying to put this finishing touches on my biz plan and wondering about equipment costs. Looking to produce corn whiskey and traditional whiskey to start. Really like the conversations I have had with Hoga about thier stills and I think I have a line on bottles but I am still fairly vague on a complete equipment list.

Any help would be appreciated.

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am trying to put this finishing touches on my biz plan and wondering about equipment costs. Looking to produce corn whiskey and traditional whiskey to start. Really like the conversations I have had with Hoga about thier stills and I think I have a line on bottles but I am still fairly vague on a complete equipment list.

Any help would be appreciated.

Bill

Depending on your experience level and tolerance for error, (and of course scale) you could be looking at anywhere from $10k to many many millions. Depends.

If you're vague about the equipment list, you can't very well price it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Bill,

Have you a rough idea of what scale you're planning on implementing? Are you planning on having it built turn-key? The troublesome thing is that it's tough to gauge without some experience yet you can't get some experience without already having the setup.

Speaking in very rough generalities, try taking up home brewing and make a batch or seven. It's small scale and perfectly legal. It will give you an idea of a full half of the process. That portion scales up pretty well. Then the hard questions about the distilling portion become a little less mysterious when you're talking with the various manufacturers.

Cheers,

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to get started, as Paul said, "have you a rough idea of what scale you're planning on implementing? Are you planning on having it built turn-key?"

First, you need to figure out how much product you want to be able to produce, then double or quadruple it. Then use those numbers to figure out what size still and amount of fermenters, etc. you need.

One of the most common answers I heard speaking to distillers when I was doing my distillery research and planning was that they wish they had started out much larger than they did, because then they had to grow fast while doing business, in many times with a facility that ended up too small. The second common answer was that they wish they had double or triple the start-up funds. I know that this happened to me. My partner made some purchases without consulting me and now what I planned as a small operation, has the possibility to be five times the size. It wasn't a bad thing, but it was a surprise. So now I am hustling to get another still that can handle the capacity we now have available to produce. My budget increased by a huge amount and I had to gather more funds before we are even near opening.

Second, do you and/or your partners have the skills and knowledge to make/weld the equipment you need, or do you have a skilled and knowledgeable steel and copper worker/welder to do it for you? Then you can save a bundle making all your equipment and scavenging used brewing, dairy, and other equipment and adapting it to distilling.

Otherwise you are going to have to pay top dollar, and wait a long while to get a turn-key operation built for you.

You've decided what products you want to make, now you have to decide how you want to make them. For whiskey you can make a mash, or a wash to distill. You need different equipment for each. A mash is basically a porridge where you ferment and distill with the grains in the mixture. That's how most American style whiskey is made. A wash is the liquid remaining after removing all the fermentable sugars and flavors from the grains and getting them into liquid form like when making beer, then fermenting and distilling the liquid. This is basically the Scottish whiskey making style.

For a wash you need to look into brewing or brewing style equipment. You need a mash/sparging/lauter tun to make the wash. Then fermenters to ferment the wash. Most types of pot or hybrid stills can be used with a wash, and you can use steam or direct flame to heat the still.

For a mash you need a kettle to heat the grains in to convert the starches to sugars and fermenters for the mash. You need a still with a agitator to move the mash around inside so it doesn't burn onto the bottom and sides of the still. It is difficult to distill a mash in a direct fired still as well, even with an agitator because the heat on the bottom of the still is so high and burning is very likely. Yes you can use a mash in a direct fired, non-agitated still. But it isn't easy.

Hoga stills are pot stills, and I think they are all direct fired. To steam heat you would need to have a steam jacket or coils installed. Think Thousands more dollars just for the metal work by someone familiar with steam. Then you need the agitator, More Thousands. Then think Tens of Thousands more for the steam boiler and installation.

In addition you need a lot more equipment. Fermenting tanks with cooling ability, hoses, pumps, connectors, storage tanks, mixing tanks, water purification, heat source, cooling source, refractometers, hydrometers, lab equipment, ... There's a ton more stuff.

Do you have solid distilling and fermenting skills? If you're asking questions about equipment it makes me think you haven't done your research, and writing a business plan isn't what you should be focusing on. Its learning how to ferment and distill. It's learning how a distillery runs and how to operate a distillery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all. All positive feedback is really,really appreciated. I have a concept and a market niche that I feel strongly about. I am not a distiller, I do not own a farm, I do not have family in either of these fields and I have no partner. I am however very determined.

It is very confusing (unless money is not an object) as I try to evaluate and balance classes, consultants etc. while reading anything I can get my hands on with my ebay still in the basement. This site is mostly non-judgemental and really terrific for established folks. But I have been working as a Senior Manager for a Fortune 500 company for nearly 20 years and still feel like an idiot most of the time!

Thank you again Johnathan, Paul etc. for taking the time.

Kindest regards,

Bill

Just to get started, as Paul said, "have you a rough idea of what scale you're planning on implementing? Are you planning on having it built turn-key?"

First, you need to figure out how much product you want to be able to produce, then double or quadruple it. Then use those numbers to figure out what size still and amount of fermenters, etc. you need.

One of the most common answers I heard speaking to distillers when I was doing my distillery research and planning was that they wish they had started out much larger than they did, because then they had to grow fast while doing business, in many times with a facility that ended up too small. The second common answer was that they wish they had double or triple the start-up funds. I know that this happened to me. My partner made some purchases without consulting me and now what I planned as a small operation, has the possibility to be five times the size. It wasn't a bad thing, but it was a surprise. So now I am hustling to get another still that can handle the capacity we now have available to produce. My budget increased by a huge amount and I had to gather more funds before we are even near opening.

Second, do you and/or your partners have the skills and knowledge to make/weld the equipment you need, or do you have a skilled and knowledgeable steel and copper worker/welder to do it for you? Then you can save a bundle making all your equipment and scavenging used brewing, dairy, and other equipment and adapting it to distilling.

Otherwise you are going to have to pay top dollar, and wait a long while to get a turn-key operation built for you.

You've decided what products you want to make, now you have to decide how you want to make them. For whiskey you can make a mash, or a wash to distill. You need different equipment for each. A mash is basically a porridge where you ferment and distill with the grains in the mixture. That's how most American style whiskey is made. A wash is the liquid remaining after removing all the fermentable sugars and flavors from the grains and getting them into liquid form like when making beer, then fermenting and distilling the liquid. This is basically the Scottish whiskey making style.

For a wash you need to look into brewing or brewing style equipment. You need a mash/sparging/lauter tun to make the wash. Then fermenters to ferment the wash. Most types of pot or hybrid stills can be used with a wash, and you can use steam or direct flame to heat the still.

For a mash you need a kettle to heat the grains in to convert the starches to sugars and fermenters for the mash. You need a still with a agitator to move the mash around inside so it doesn't burn onto the bottom and sides of the still. It is difficult to distill a mash in a direct fired still as well, even with an agitator because the heat on the bottom of the still is so high and burning is very likely. Yes you can use a mash in a direct fired, non-agitated still. But it isn't easy.

Hoga stills are pot stills, and I think they are all direct fired. To steam heat you would need to have a steam jacket or coils installed. Think Thousands more dollars just for the metal work by someone familiar with steam. Then you need the agitator, More Thousands. Then think Tens of Thousands more for the steam boiler and installation.

In addition you need a lot more equipment. Fermenting tanks with cooling ability, hoses, pumps, connectors, storage tanks, mixing tanks, water purification, heat source, cooling source, refractometers, hydrometers, lab equipment, ... There's a ton more stuff.

Do you have solid distilling and fermenting skills? If you're asking questions about equipment it makes me think you haven't done your research, and writing a business plan isn't what you should be focusing on. Its learning how to ferment and distill. It's learning how a distillery runs and how to operate a distillery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...