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Designing my own still


wigglywalker

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I am not tiring to sound rude when I say this.

Joining copper to stainless is hard to put together if you a novice welder. But for someone that is a really great tig welder they should be able to do it. Even if that person has never done that weld before it is easy to learn.

depending on the process you can use :

1. 316l ss filler

2. 312l ss filler

3. regular copper ele wire (but it contains oxygen) not the top choice

4. Di-oxidized copper tig filler (super good, plus can be ground to make the pieces look like one)

5. not a welding process but you can use the tig welder / silicon-bronze ( a very ductile joint) very go

While searching to see which filler to use i came across a post on some other site saying to watch out for different expansion rates of metals (copper/stainless) the issue was with the welds cracking at heat up/cool down. they recommended using silicon bronze vrs the parent metals. i think the site was something to do with NASA so i am sure the temperatures are not near what we are dealing with but I switched to silicon bronze after reading that when joining copper/stainless.

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Why not just build an all copper still? Especially if you are going with direct heat, gas flame. What filler would work best on copper to copper with oxy acetylene torch? thanks,

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For me it is way wiser to build the boiler out of stainless than copper. You can buy a lot heavier stainless for supercheap then thin copper. I personally find stainless easier to work with and weld and polish and everything all in general. Also stainless last for ever and take way more heat than copper will ever think about. My personal opinion Is the mash is sitting in the boiler and all of the purification process happens up in the column so there's no sense in having your boiler be copper. I don't even have a problem making the whole column out of stainless also. Because once the finished distillate is collected it's easy to add copper to the finishing vessel where the copper will smooth it out more I believe then the actual column its self.

copper to copper with a torch------

The easiest way to join those two together is simply a real silver solider, we paid about $200 for 8-10 oz of it. Not the cheap stuff you buy from lowes or home depot. The real stuff takes a lot higher heat to melt and it is far stronger. The cheap stuff home home depot will work just be careful about direct heat on any joints when doing a run.

also ```

silicone bronze works great too.

as always make sure everything is cleaned good, and try to take the work harding out of the metal (copper) so it does not crack on you.

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"Because once the finished distillate is collected it's easy to add copper to the finishing vessel where the copper will smooth it out more I believe then the actual column its self."

Not thread hijacking, just wanting to know if there's a thread related to this line of reasoning? I couldn't find one.

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"Because once the finished distillate is collected it's easy to add copper to the finishing vessel where the copper will smooth it out more I believe then the actual column its self."

Not thread hijacking, just wanting to know if there's a thread related to this line of reasoning? I couldn't find one.

You will want to research "ethyl carbamate" for concerns related to using copper on condensed spirits. Theres info on the board.

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"Because once the finished distillate is collected it's easy to add copper to the finishing vessel where the copper will smooth it out more I believe then the actual column its self."

Not thread hijacking, just wanting to know if there's a thread related to this line of reasoning? I couldn't find one.

research ..

treating with "nobel metals". there are probably people out there on both sides. Last I checked copper tubing is running all over my house. Now this works with any type of spirit but help rum out more then anything.

But try it, take 3 one gallon containers

1. with properly processed spirit (copper still) this is the control

2. with properly processed spirit (copper still)

3. stainless column

now take a pure copper scrubber and put it in #2 wait 2-3 days.... both 2 and 3 will taste so so much better and #3 will be far better than #1.

results- if copper does just that, you should see what other treatments can do.

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stainless steel will not crack.

think about what they make jet engines out of. Also, closer to home think about pots and pans, 99% of everything on the market for cook ware is stainless steel.

A good friend at another distillery just uses stainless steel drums with direct fire for his boilers.

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"You will want to research "ethyl carbamate" for concerns related to using copper on condensed spirits. Theres info on the board."

Thanks, I went and found a study early '90s on that subject. However, the ethyl carbamate problem flies in the face of the reason to use copper for the sulphide reductions. And the study makes it a point the copper must be in contact with the hot distillate or in the vapor path, not a storage vessel of copper in order to form the ethyl carbamate. Appears to be several things on both sides of this fence.

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Sorry, Porter. My head was sorta elsewhere when I posted that. You're right. Its not related. Just ignore that bit. :)

Nothing taken. I was just making the point copper is good in one sense (sulphides) and bad in another (ethyl carbamate).

I sort of find the entire copper topic falls under "eggs are now good for you". .....but last year they were still bad.

My original point in asking was whether copper in the storage vessel actually did anything for sulphides. And I still haven't seen anything on that. From what I have found the copper must be in the vapor path. But that again hasn't been anything solid. However, nothing I've found says storing finished product in copper removes sulphides.

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All the stainless steel cookware is "clad" with some other metal, copper or something else, and it is soldered to the stainless. Only the very cheapest stock pots are not clad.

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All the stainless steel cookware is "clad" with some other metal, copper or something else, and it is soldered to the stainless. Only the very cheapest stock pots are not clad.

I believe that is to spread the heat around and avoid hot spots.

I don't think stainless would be subject to cracking at distilling temperatures. High performance turbocharged cars commonly have stainless exhaust and are subject to very fast , uneven and extreme temperature fluctuations and is very reliable. I would think a heavier gauge stainless boiler wouldn't be a problem.

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Another thing to think about is the mash acts like a heat sink absorbing the heat off of whatever metal you choose to use so even though the metal is taking the brunt of the heat energy from the flame it is being wick away very quickly into the liquid.

It is like trying to solder a copper pipe that still has water left in it, it seams you can never get the pipe hot enough for the solder to melt because of the water in the pipe is absorbing the heat energy.

*****A good example of stainless equipment that gets direct fire all the time would be brewing equipment, all of their brew kettles and hot water tanks are all stainless steel and all direct fired.

good topic...

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I like the brew kettle answer. I am very rural, propane the only heat, steam too inefficient. I have two 4' tank heads SS 14 gauge, 304 left over from a wine tank project. I want to direct fire, but I was worried about cracking. So, with that answered, I plan on going up 4' with more stainless, then top and the rest with copper. That gives me two 350 gallon stills which match my 8 poly fermenters two ss tanks and a mash tun, all 350 gallon. Whiskey and Rum are the goals, so pot stills seem adequate, though a couple of plates for the whiskey is intriguing. Features of the continuous still are also tempting. Lots to learn, a 2,000 sq. ft. barn to convert into a distillery which is attached to a gorgeous historic old west saloon,,,with no license. It is the ultimate old west Tasting room. I hope the picture comes through here....

post-11117-0-93042600-1425317525_thumb.j

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And that brings us right back to joining copper to stainless. Joining the SS side to the copper top. I don't have a TIG. I will MIG the stainless, and, how about oxy-acetylene with silicon bronze filler for the stainless to copper joint? with rivets? Thanks, Alex

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And that brings us right back to joining copper to stainless. Joining the SS side to the copper top. I don't have a TIG. I will MIG the stainless, and, how about oxy-acetylene with silicon bronze filler for the stainless to copper joint? with rivets? Thanks, Alex

I'm sure the answer to my question is somewhere in the forum but I'm on lunch break.. anywho -

is it possible to have a joint where the SS meets the copper butt to butt and bolt it together? Seems easier but I don't know what sort of metal equipment you are working with..

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I could see a bolt together flange from the top up. Changing the column to an onion or whatever could be practical. But where the sides meet the top is a large joint and I think it would be hard to seal if it were bolted. The top could be stainless however, and the bolted transition to a copper column or onion kinda makes sense, say 12" in diameter, with no dissimilar metals being welded or brazed at all.

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Thank you again, I can't tell you how great it is to be able to crowd source expertise on this stuff... I will owe you all a bottle of booze when are done...

Dang, how did i miss this!!! Of course, I hate the fact no one can ship into the lovely State of GA. Considering the cost of picking all the bottles up, my son would have the very expensive wedding reception with the most hammered guests.

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Certainly seem to be going in the direction of a 100% SS boiler, with a 100% copper column or onion and beyond. Joined by bolts or Tri-clamp. Looks like tri-clamp 10" or 12" would be a good marriage of the stainless boiler to the column or onion. And I always overthink everything, can't help it. Stainless manway is going to work better too.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I just scored this really cool SS double wall tank, probably a steam heated dairy tank. The bottom was rusted out mild steel which has been cut away. I plan on using the top to make a new bottom and putting two 5,000 watt electric heating elements in it with a small remote reservoir for maintaining a no pressure water level. I have found large copper pots in Mexico. 34", which I plan on using as a top, along with 2 18" copper bowls to make a bubble. A manway, filler, sprayball? site glass all seem appropriate. It is about 100 gallons according to my calculations, and I think a lot better than working with a 55 gallon SS drum. For scale, the pooch is my Newfoundland, Gunnar. I have a MIG spool gun set up, which I plan on using with silicon bronze to put it all together, except for the bottom, which I will SS MIG. DO you think two 5,000 watt elements is enough heat? Thanks, guys.

post-11117-0-17405100-1428169246_thumb.j

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I just scored this really cool SS double wall tank, probably a steam heated dairy tank. The bottom was rusted out mild steel which has been cut away. I plan on using the top to make a new bottom and putting two 5,000 watt electric heating elements in it with a small remote reservoir for maintaining a no pressure water level. I have found large copper pots in Mexico. 34", which I plan on using as a top, along with 2 18" copper bowls to make a bubble. A manway, filler, sprayball? site glass all seem appropriate. It is about 100 gallons according to my calculations, and I think a lot better than working with a 55 gallon SS drum. For scale, the pooch is my Newfoundland, Gunnar. I have a MIG spool gun set up, which I plan on using with silicon bronze to put it all together, except for the bottom, which I will SS MIG. DO you think two 5,000 watt elements is enough heat? Thanks, guys.

10,000 watts at 100 gallons is going to take forever to heat up. Quick calculation shows a rise of a little over half a degree fahrenheit per minute.

If you have the power available I'd seriously consider putting more elements into the still.

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How about a hot water boiler? They are really cheap on craigslist. Steam boilers just don't come up, too specialized I guess. There were a lot of houses built around here with hot water radiant floor heating, and many owners don't like them, so $3,000 boilers are selling for $250.

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